Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?

[Chuck]

Get this book for help in debating with these people, here's a wee extract:

http://www.rkba.org/comment/cowards.html

The book is a collection of essays and gives MUCH food for thought.

[Fedaykin]

It's quite simple really, the States with sensible gun laws that allow law abiding people to defend themselves have lower crime because the scumbags don't like a level playing field either on the street or in court. You just need to look at the gun and non gun crime figures for Illinois, California, or any anti gun state to see that.
Blu

I agree with you on the surface Blu, but what's stopping the UK Gov't realising we could go the same way? It would be a quick win if, after a 4 year term, they could show that the crime stats have plummeted, if that was the case.
As said above, the stats could me moulded to suit any agenda, even the re-arming of the responsible, if it would help.
I find it hard not to be cynical, but the only reason I can see for us not entering into a sensible and well-informed debate would be to keep the power out of the people's hands.

Well there has actually been a significant fall in violent crime for the 2011/12 crime statistics published this year for England and Wales (Scotland does its own stats). All crime in England and Wales has been steadily declining for the last thirty years, the statistics are very clear on that and it has been well reported.

The problem with comparing our statistics with America is people often fail to account what data is being recorded, fail to make a like for like comparison and fail to normalise that. The FBI classes five different crimes as "Violent crimes", the UK Home Office over 250 (can't remember the exact figure). As already mentioned the police in the UK class Suicide with a gun as a crime!

Throw in the general public belief that crime is on the rise except where they live having a sensible talk about this subject is difficult.

I am in no doubt that that people will reply to this comment stating "Crime is on the rampant rise", the statistics say otherwise.

[Demonic69]

As far as the Telegraph is concerned there's potentially been a rise in violent crime, the stats are just geared towards showing a reduction. That's the problem with statistics, they work for whoever's getting paid vast sums of money to collate them.
There are several reports of the police and BSA "massaging" figures to meet a required conclusion.
Etc.
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Though these articles may just suit the Telegraph's agenda.