Gun Stats - How does Vermont do it?

[Demonic69]

I was having a discussion with a colleague about how dangerous guns are, while he could flippantly bandy around supporting phrases it was hard to get him to understand the statistics. This prompted me to do some more digging as I don't like quoting opinion as fact.
I gathered the stats from the web showing that the UK had a relatively large number of gun deaths per legally held firearm - as a ratio we're far higher than the US - and that most gun crime in the UK was committed with air rifles, imitation firearms and illegally held hand guns.
He then got onto America and just how dangerous it is and it got me wondering...
I never take the USA as a whole into any discussion, that would be like including the whole of Europe, as every state has their own set of laws.
I did some Googling to see what was dragging the stats up in the US and I was quite surprised with what I found.
For example, the District of Columbia has the lowest gun ownership rate but the highest gun death rate per 100,000, by a long way!
Conversely Vermont has the lowest gun death rate and a reasonably high gun ownership at 42%.
Wyoming has the highest % of gun owners, yet is only the 9th highest for gun deaths.
This trend seems to be repeated several times over the whole of the US. The Antis seem to ignore these simple facts when spouting about the latest spree killing and the evil AR-15.

The figures in the UK are horribly skewed by the HO, the statistics having some archaic (and immoral) template applied to make them fit better with the overall message of a safe UK.

So how do Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming etc. do it? How do they maintain a low level of gun deaths, yet allow almost half of their population to legally own guns? Surely there are some lessons we could learn, if only the powers that be were receptive.

[Blackstuff]

So how do Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming etc. do it? How do they maintain a low level of gun deaths, yet allow almost half of their population to legally own guns? Surely there are some lessons we could learn, if only the powers that be were receptive.

They are wide open spaces where people aren't crammed in like sardines! Its the same with the UK, if you wiped the 4 most populated cities off the map you'd get rid of 95% of the gun crime. People are the problem and always will be

[Sim G]

So how do Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming etc. do it? How do they maintain a low level of gun deaths, yet allow almost half of their population to legally own guns? Surely there are some lessons we could learn, if only the powers that be were receptive.

Attitude.

I have found more and more that gun owners tend to be centre conservatives with a strong work ethic and are self reliant. Socialists tend to whine, pi$$ and moan that it's always someone or something else to blame for their own percieved or society's ills.

Don't get me wrong, there are some right nobbers in the shooting/gun world, but on the whole they fall into a particular demographic group.

Look at the regional or county crime figures in the UK. You will see that violent and serious crime revolves around particular social classes. The bean bagger of course will tell you that the high crime rates of these areas is purely because of the population of that area's fiscal and social standing. I'll tell you from experience that is a crock, it's down to attitude.

Look at any other indicator. Litter, graffiti, even how well kept front gardens are, you will see so much is down to attitude... Guns and crime are no different.

[Demonic69]

So how do Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming etc. do it? How do they maintain a low level of gun deaths, yet allow almost half of their population to legally own guns? Surely there are some lessons we could learn, if only the powers that be were receptive.

They are wide open spaces where people aren't crammed in like sardines! Its the same with the UK, if you wiped the 4 most populated cities off the map you'd get rid of 95% of the gun crime. People are the problem and always will be

Yeah, there seems to be a vague correlation between population density and gun crime, especially in DoC!.

But how do we change the attitude Sim, how did we get like we are and how did they?

[froggy]

Re-

Vermont, Iowa, Idaho, Wyoming are both fairly rural and in the top 10 whitest states .
As Sim G explained they are all populated with a fairly homogenous population of similar mind set with stronger moral/religious ethics. The combination of those values & absence of black or hispanic violence preserves/protect them.
This is not unique to the US , the same would apply anywhere in Europe.

[Sim G]

But how do we change the attitude Sim, how did we get like we are and how did they?

We can't, the UK is far too far along for anything such as a return to the firearms laws before 1953. How did we get here? Socialism. We've handed out to all unsundry for decades. Our "can do" has been replaced with "can't do" and "won't do". We're fecked. And it will only get worse...

[northumbrian]

Another way to look at it, statistics, can be moulded to fit what ever argument or agenda you want to put across.
It's just the media, lawyers & politicians are better at manipulating statistics and talking 5h1te than the rest of us.

[Chuck]

Demonic, just look at Chicago and NY to see how well gun control works, most regulated and most gun violence...and one is Obamas town is it not??

Full of benefit and other peoples money entitled fckwits and pot smokers - and certain ethnics who have no value of life but can distribute drugs with impressive efficiency.

[Dannywayoflife]

Don't the home office usually include suicide in the gun crime stats?!

[Blu]

It's quite simple really, the States with sensible gun laws that allow law abiding people to defend themselves have lower crime because the scumbags don't like a level playing field either on the street or in court. You just need to look at the gun and non gun crime figures for Illinois, California, or any anti gun state to see that.

Michigan has three crime hotspots, Saginaw, Flint and Detroit, all three cities are Democrat controlled and all three cities are predominately black. Make of that what you will.

Blu