No.4T Advice

[Rearlugs]

The receiver looks real enough, but the rifle appears to be a complete (recent, civilian) rebuild.

There are dozens of points to check on a 4(T), and you only really get the feel of what is "real", "reproduced", "faked", "authentic service repair" after looking at dozens of the rifles.

At that price, which is about the going rate for a genuine receiver and genuine scope (everything else in-between replaced), you are more or less looking at the base level for a "bitsa" 4(T). A largely original rifle with a mismatched scope + genuine bracket would be about GBP3k, a 100% matched rifle but with no box probably about GBP3.5k, and a full set about GBP4k upwards, depending upon condition.

If you're buying any sniper, its very much caveat emptor, and best to try and get someone like Colin at Fultons or one of the specialist historic rifles RFDs to check it on your behalf.

[HALODIN]

Wow, they're expensive. That's the price of a rifle!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780949749031 ... 749036/plp

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... er+Laidler

Assuming I did buy them, how many pages would be useful to me on the No.4T?

Get either/both of:

No.4(T) Armourers Perspective, Pete Laidler

The British Sniper, Ian Skennerton

THEN - once you have read them both enough times to quote page numbers - go to see a 4(T)

...flying blind is a great way to crash and burn, and with the 4(T) market being so rife with bitsa's, its VERY easy to get burned & an increasingly expensive learning curve.

WHEN you do end up with a nice 4(T) though, DO say come & say hello as I do the leather kit for them

[HALODIN]

I'm going there on Saturday either way, so I guess this will be my first glimpse of one. I'll take my camera and if Chris doesn't mind I'll upload them here for discussion.

"Finally buy the rifle and not the story." <-- Absolutely, rule no.1

+++++1 on these words
Take your time and wait for the RIGHT rifle, there are probably more snide ones available than you would imagine, and most very convincing.
Remember they have ALL been to war and seen much service consequently not all textbook examples as some would have you believe(but still genuine).
Finally buy the rifle and not the story.
Happy hunting

[HALODIN]

Thanks for the tips. Out of interest, apart from Colin, who are the specialist historic rifle RFD's?

If you're buying any sniper, its very much caveat emptor, and best to try and get someone like Colin at Fultons or one of the specialist historic rifles RFDs to check it on your behalf.

[John MH]

Wow, they're expensive. That's the price of a rifle!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780949749031 ... 749036/plp

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... er+Laidler

Assuming I did buy them, how many pages would be useful to me on the No.4T?

Get either/both of:

No.4(T) Armourers Perspective, Pete Laidler

The British Sniper, Ian Skennerton

THEN - once you have read them both enough times to quote page numbers - go to see a 4(T)

...flying blind is a great way to crash and burn, and with the 4(T) market being so rife with bitsa's, its VERY easy to get burned & an increasingly expensive learning curve.

WHEN you do end up with a nice 4(T) though, DO say come & say hello as I do the leather kit for them

Wow, I've got both of those and a few others, never knew they were worth so much.

[saddler]

Wow, they're expensive. That's the price of a rifle!

http://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780949749031 ... 749036/plp

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_nos ... er+Laidler

Assuming I did buy them, how many pages would be useful to me on the No.4T?

Get either/both of:

No.4(T) Armourers Perspective, Pete Laidler

The British Sniper, Ian Skennerton

THEN - once you have read them both enough times to quote page numbers - go to see a 4(T)

...flying blind is a great way to crash and burn, and with the 4(T) market being so rife with bitsa's, its VERY easy to get burned & an increasingly expensive learning curve.

WHEN you do end up with a nice 4(T) though, DO say come & say hello as I do the leather kit for them

BUY the Skennerton book on ABE.
I rarely buy any book on Amazon - prices are beyond a joke! I wonder what my two earlier Laidler paperback versions would be worth on the site? Enough to buy a couple of flats in Mayfair from some of the bollox prices some dealers are charging....

Not looked at Jeremy Tenniswood? The Laidler book is on his website at £25, still in print FFS!!!
Or try Jim Reading in Birmingham...he'll have a copy or three....
http://www.antiqueswebsite.co.uk/jim-re ... onry-books

Amazon, as with 4(T)s in general, only exist to re-inforce the old saying about fools & their money....

So, £350 less £25 = £325 saved on the Laidler book. 15% finder/saving fee = £52.50, call it £50 for cash tongueout

[saddler]

Thanks for the tips. Out of interest, apart from Colin, who are the specialist historic rifle RFD's?

If you're buying any sniper, its very much caveat emptor, and best to try and get someone like Colin at Fultons or one of the specialist historic rifles RFDs to check it on your behalf.

Lock Stock & Barrel of Mossley, Lancs

Simon Deakin, as well - though I forget what his trading name is!

They're both in the Lovat Society with me...

Chris Smith of SmithArms in Essex

Roger Payne in the West Midlands

Seth Ellett

...need any more?

[HALODIN]

All done. You lot are costing me a fortune, I should have just stuck to kayaking... :lol:

£50 cash no problem, let's just hope the numbers come in tonight or I'm made a bitcoin millionaire overnight!

Thanks for your help!

BUY the Skennerton book on ABE.
I rarely buy any book on Amazon - prices are beyond a joke! I wonder what my two earlier Laidler paperback versions would be worth on the site? Enough to buy a couple of flats in Mayfair from some of the bollox prices some dealers are charging....

Not looked at Jeremy Tenniswood? The Laidler book is on his website at £25, still in print FFS!!!
Or try Jim Reading in Birmingham...he'll have a copy or three....
http://www.antiqueswebsite.co.uk/jim-re ... onry-books

Amazon, as with 4(T)s in general, only exist to re-inforce the old saying about fools & their money....

So, £350 less £25 = £325 saved on the Laidler book. 15% finder/saving fee = £52.50, call it £50 for cash tongueout

[Charlotte the flyer]

Craig,

Have you fired one yet? I'm not knocking them because they are what they are, but for me it was a huge disappointment given what you're going to pay for one. They were 'on my list' before I got behind one, sadly my expectations and the reality differed a lot. I got a standard No4 in the end and have decided to do my WWII sniping with a Mosin Nagant.

I'm sure that many will disagree, but have a go and make your own mind up before parting with lots of hard earned ££££££s.

[HALODIN]

It's funny you should say that, our Chief RO said the same thing to me. He said it took him quite a while to learn how to shoot it. What caused the huge disappointment? Don't hold back.

Craig,

Have you fired one yet? I'm not knocking them because they are what they are, but for me it was a huge disappointment given what you're going to pay for one. They were 'on my list' before I got behind one, sadly my expectations and the reality differed a lot. I got a standard No4 in the end and have decided to do my WWII sniping with a Mosin Nagant.

I'm sure that many will disagree, but have a go and make your own mind up before parting with lots of hard earned ££££££s.