LBR restrictions/law

[Ginger]

Let me confirm the in's and outs with my secretary and I will PM you both.

[LeighC]

I asked this question when I was a probationer at my club, I was told that you were not permitted to loan/borrow an LBP/LBR so the club didn't own one. They do hold LBP/LBR competitions though, although the entry is a little restricted! At another club I shoot at from time to time, they take the view that the gate is locked when live firing is taking place, so feel free to 'have a go!' three wise monkey rule applies!

[Ginger]

This is a recent change I believe.

[joe]

I believe that the wells case is different the weapon in question was actually buckmark rifle with a detachable stock it also had a rod out the back of pistol grip so it would still legal with stock off so not a handgun but rifle with detachable stock so you can shoot it one handed plod saw this a baltent get around section 15 !

home office approval for handguns in clubs other then muzzle load was removed in the 1997 act also
the act did not ban handguns per say it banned short firearms! hence cut down the barrel of you ar-15 to 10 inches it will be section 5 regardless thats is a rifle / carbine!

[IainWR]

Why differentiate in the first place? If it complies with rules regarding barrel length and overall length (30cm and 60cm OAL) why aren't they just classified as a S1 firearm and treated as such?

They are classified as a S1 firearm and are treated as such. The point is that the privelige of possessing a rifle without a certificate as a member of a home office approved club does not apply to S1 firearms; it applies to rifles and by a specific extension to muzzle loading pistols. So unless you can convince a jury that a LBR is a "rifle" for the purposes of S15(1) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, you may be found to be committing the offence of possession without authority under S1(1) Firearms Act 1968.

Iain

[joe]

Why differentiate in the first place? If it complies with rules regarding barrel length and overall length (30cm and 60cm OAL) why aren't they just classified as a S1 firearm and treated as such?

They are classified as a S1 firearm and are treated as such. The point is that the privelige of possessing a rifle without a certificate as a member of a home office approved club does not apply to S1 firearms; it applies to rifles and by a specific extension to muzzle loading pistols. So unless you can convince a jury that a LBR is a "rifle" for the purposes of S15(1) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, you may be found to be committing the offence of possession without authority under S1(1) Firearms Act 1968.

Iain

well said its a misconception that lbr`s are carbines there are just very large handguns!
the wells case is different from what I understand!

[Ginger]

Iain,

can I be cheeky and ask you to speak to the NRA's legal people / your police liason chap/chapette and or the head of firearm licensing at Surrey Police to clarify the situation for us NRA members and clubs.

[Sandgroper]

Why differentiate in the first place? If it complies with rules regarding barrel length and overall length (30cm and 60cm OAL) why aren't they just classified as a S1 firearm and treated as such?

They are classified as a S1 firearm and are treated as such. The point is that the privelige of possessing a rifle without a certificate as a member of a home office approved club does not apply to S1 firearms; it applies to rifles and by a specific extension to muzzle loading pistols. So unless you can convince a jury that a LBR is a "rifle" for the purposes of S15(1) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, you may be found to be committing the offence of possession without authority under S1(1) Firearms Act 1968.

Iain

I understand that. I admit my post was badly worded, but I was asking why differentiate at all if they comply with minimum dimensions and are S1?

If I took my Winchester carbine (13.25 inch barrel 33.5 inches OAL) and replaced the stock with one from a Mares Leg (L/A Pistol) it would still conform with the 12/24 rule (and be S1) but it would then be treated differently.

Is a Competitor pistol with 23 inch barrel and 24 inch OAL really a LBP or a rifle without a stock? If I then attached some form of stock to it does it then become a rifle?

Is it then illegal to own the stock which would change it from LBP to rifle and back again?

Slightly off topic, I know!

[greenshoots]

home office approval for handguns in clubs other then muzzle load was removed in the 1997 act also
the act did not ban handguns per say it banned short firearms! hence cut down the barrel of you ar-15 to 10 inches it will be section 5 regardless thats is a rifle / carbine!

off topic i know where do brococks stand in all this i have 4 on fac i know as section five now one but me can fire them

greenshoots

[Sandgroper]

There was an amendment that dealt with brococks and the like, allowing them to be held on FAC.