UK AR15 Forum - Is there one?

[John MH]

When our members went to lunch they were expecting to return to the same firing points they had left at 12:30 as we have done before. They were not "parading across Butt 19". By the time they returned, early, from lunch due to the mess up on the range, I had managed to get all of their belongings to the gate. They were trying to get across the car park to the gate to collect their belongings. That is the area where they were stopped. Not once when it became obvious that we had been left stranded did anyone from the organisers of the other NRA approach us to explain that the range access was changing, they just tried to stop anybody from collecting their belongings while the range was still closed to live fire.

As for money, we thought that at the time. Our club books and pays in advance. I find it very sad that booking ranges is treated like a game of trumps..

I and my club take safety very seriously. If we had stayed where we were and needed to leave we wouldn't have just wandered across the live area. A stop call would have had to be made which would have caused a very big inconvenience.

I have no gripe with the NRA, they are trying to improve things. The loos are coming along a treat by the way.

For the sake of the forum I shall creep back into my shell, I don't usually get involved in the heated threads.

Bobbob

The other Club is the "NRA" it was an NRA event, if anyone was rude or abusive I can only apologise but I was not there. If someone at a NRA Event is rude or abusive then you should take it up with the NRA, the people shooting that event come from many clubs from all over the country as its an open entry. If you or anyone had a problem with someone you should have highlighted it to the Range Office. As stated in one of your previous posts "I believe one of our committee members wrote to someone about the situation but didn’t get a reply." that should be chased through. There is no excuse for being rude or abusive, robust at times is required as people do unfortunately ignore the "Danger Live Firing Ahead" signs and have walked across the RHS of Century towards the car park at 300 in front of shooters at 400 yards. Fortunately a safety "Stop" was called and no one was hurt, the offender just wandered on to the 300 yard car park without even an acknowledgement of his dangerous mistake, luckily each shooter at the event was being individually supervised with SA90(B) Qualified RCOs in overall charge and the infringement spotted early.

And I think on the occasion that you were referring to, if you'd stayed where you were and had to leave in the afternoon you would have had to wait until the firing on the RHS had finished for the day unless it was, of course, for an emergency.

If we happen across each other in the 300 yard car park come across for a cup of tea, if you can point out the rude offenders I'll chastise them for you.

I wear 'Camo' at work on occasion but rarely on the Range unless its pouring down.

[Agentfunky]

The best bit of advice would be to decide what type of shooting you want to do, and what calibres you are interested in. Once you have an idea of what you are looking for in terms of your shooting experience then people can point you in the right direction.

If competitive shooting is your preference, then I would strongly recommend going down to a shoot and asking the guys there. I have never seen a situation where prospective CSR and PR shooters were not welcome to come along and see what we do, and there is a lot of support for new shooters so you will be in good hands.

I'll be doing that in the future - but I'd prefer if there was more open information on t'internet.

I understand your concern. As I understand it site staff for CSR have taken that on board.

in the meantime if you have any queries we can certainly try to help you, or direct you to the right places.

[Agentfunky]

That's a bit of a long post for your first one Phil, I hope you are not going to make a habit of it on here.

Just wanted to clear a couple of things up for the benefit of all concerned.

[Blackknight1974]

I would also like to know who was rude from the CSR match and what was said. I was there and didn't hear anything mentioned. Or was it the case that no-one said anything and your members found it intimidating walking into a large group of people? Just to clear things up further, there are several regular shooters who are from either far full health - or the first flush of youth.

Had you approached someone and explained the situation, one of the ROs would have helped resolve the issue. If it had been mentioned to me; I would have helped you carry the stuff off the range if required. Despite what some people seem to think - CSR is probably the friendliest league going. People who want to try it are regularly lent rifles and given ammunition so they can try it. They are paired with old hands (as all shooting is 1 to 1 supervision) who give advice and remind them of the course of fire. Even if you have no interest in shooting it regularly; I advise trying a match - just so you actually know what goes on. The last "newbie" that I spoke to; was upset that they hadn't tried it sooner.

The Camo on display is because CSR involves lying on muddy ground and running through "Century Lake". The CSR matches take place on probably the worst part of the whole range complex and the NRA do very well out of it. If you can get them to move us to a piece of Century that is in better condition, then I don't think you'd find many objectors from the CSR crowd. Camo is cheap hardwearing kit that is designed for purpose. I'd rather lie in the mud/wade through water in my camo gortex waterproofs that cost me £50 rather than my Berghaus ones that cost me £150. Only ex or serving members of the military wear badges/insignia.

The NRA should have made it clear that the range was booked for a CSR match when your club placed their booking and explained the problems you were likely to face with access. The dates for CSR are arranged well in advance and for future reference can be found on the NRA website - if you wish to avoid them.

As for the "shooting for real men" stuff and "walts keep out"; both are tongue in cheek references - as I said earlier, there is a lot of banter within the group. Contrary to what some people seem to want to believe, we don't take ourselves too seriously. CSR is often shot in appalling conditions (I've got some videos that amply show that) and you only have to cast an eye over to the gazebos and range mats further over on Century to see where that comment comes from. Furthermore - we have several female shooters who regularly come along. The Walt reference is to the episode that saw the demise of the AR15 UKHTF, I don't see why that would put anyone off unless you spend hours in front of the mirror admiring your "major league door kicker" patches.

Furthermore - I don't see why having to register and introduce yourself is an issue - if anything it means you have a chance to "speak" to all the other members and let them know your experience and ask questions etc.

[channel12]

I bumped into an old mate at Bisley who looked like he was having a good time with some of the CSR community. They weren't my "cup of tea".

I suppose that's why I also found it supremely ironic that their new forum is entitled "Shooting for real men" and a warning sign declaring "no walts"........ Mmmmm.

It's a bit of a shame - I've got an open slot for a .223 that I'd planned to try CSR with (amongst other disciplines).

I saw their site and the slogans / pictures did put me off a bit - more so the fact that it's a closed forum. I tend to 'lurk' for a while, before joining a forum to get a feel for it - regular posts, attitude, topics covered etc. Keeping things private may keep some idiots out, but it probably puts a lot of other people off too.

Other than what's on the NRA site, there's very little (public) info online. That can't help the discipline in the long run.

There's an article about CSR in the current issue of the NRA journal with contains details of a couple of matches shot late last year.
There are still places on April's matches see the NRA site for the entry form and course of fire. Contact details for the match organiser are also there and they could sort you out a rifle loan. The NRA also have AR-15's for hire.

[Sim G]

You really are very opinionated aren't you.

Oh yeah, massively so!

But rarely without knowledge, research or experience. And seldom is my initial assessment wrong. When it is, I apologise unreservedly, until then, I'll maintain my position. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck....

Bobbob's experience fits in perfectly with what I have personally experienced and have also had relayed to me. And if you think your reply to bobbob does not insinute the sentiment I took from it, re-read your post when feeling a little less defensive about your discipline and those who shoot it...

[John MH]

Ok, confirmed what I thought. I acknowledge your superior opinion and knowledge well done. What do you shoot, apart from your keyboard intellect that is?

[Mikaveli]

There's an article about CSR in the current issue of the NRA journal with contains details of a couple of matches shot late last year.
There are still places on April's matches see the NRA site for the entry form and course of fire. Contact details for the match organiser are also there and they could sort you out a rifle loan. The NRA also have AR-15's for hire.

Thanks (and to AgentFunky), I've started a new thread for some info on the discipline itself (away from any of the side-issues of this thread.

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=11871

I'll also look at seeing if I could attend a match in April.

[Agentfunky]

You really are very opinionated aren't you.

Oh yeah, massively so!

But rarely without knowledge, research or experience. And seldom is my initial assessment wrong. When it is, I apologise unreservedly, until then, I'll maintain my position. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck....

Bobbob's experience fits in perfectly with what I have personally experienced and have also had relayed to me. And if you think your reply to bobbob does not insinute the sentiment I took from it, re-read your post when feeling a little less defensive about your discipline and those who shoot it...

John's presentation of the situation is exactly as I have experienced it when I shoot down there.

I cannot vouch for the specific incident in question, but there have been a number of times where people have walked obliviously in front of the firing line. Quite often the primary objective is to stop the shoot and attract the attention of the person in danger to get them to out of the danger area. Saying "excuse me" in a hushed tone will not cut the mustard in those cases.

There are signs put out to inform people that they are entering a danger area, but they still walk across them.

John has been more than accommodating and has even offered to have a chat and a brew at the car park to address the concerns of bobbob. If there is an issue I am sure it can be resolved reasonably.

In the meantime it is unfair and unfounded for you to single out a particular shooting discipline or group of shooters and tar them all with the same brush. If there is an issue then come and talk to one of the RCOs or report it to the Range Office as JohnMH suggested.

[Sim G]

Ok, confirmed what I thought. I acknowledge your superior opinion and knowledge well done. What do you shoot, apart from your keyboard intellect that is?

Oh stop being so precious, will you?!

Does what I shoot make a difference? Perhaps it does....

Black powder revolvers in order to try and carry on a little from where I left off in '97 when they took my other handguns from me. LBR, for the same reason.

I've got a couple of "fantasist black rimfires" because of what I shot in the military and "Call of Duty". I shoot a straight pull "black gun", a Ruger, because I loved the A-team and I had a staright pull AR to see if it was anywhere near what my old Colt Delta H-Bar was like prior to losing that in the first ban of '88. I'll never replace the Garand....

I have the obligatory 10/22, but by Volquartson. Used to shoot a lot of Bianchi and 1500 with S&W's so made the transition with Phoenix. Likewise, I have the obilagatory Marlin for the same reasons. But also have a lovely collection of Marlin lever guns, the vast majority of which are pre-1900. Got them because I really wanted to be a cowboy when I grew up, but not much call for that on a council estate in Newcastle...... even wanted to call my horse Trevor! They took an original .38-40 Colt SAA off me in the handgun ban and lost a .38-40 Colt Lightning pump action rifle due to the ban in '88.

Benelli S1 shotgun for Practical and Target Shotgun. Had a Remy 870 and a Remy 1100, both S1 and tricked up exactly the same with the same bells and whistles. Got rid of them for the Benelli. After three years still wondering if it was "right" to do so...

There are other S2 shotguns as well. A couple of cheap sxs and a Hatsan 20 bore that I do a little rabbit with, but not so much now. I do have a lovely Miroku grade 3 Millenium trap gun that I bust clays with.

Then there is my RPA. The one gun that is a keeper. Has given me half MOA from 100 to 1000 yards, and it's British as well!!

Used to shoot a little vermin on a mates farm and even once shot a boar! Mates farm is gone now and with it my desire to shoot game. Too much drama as land and shooting is guarded jealously in the South East.

Oh. got a couple of air pistols and an air rifle I shoot in the garden as well!

And as you've identified, my keyboard and my mouth. But as said, rarely unwarranted when I do...