South African Gun Law

[M1Charles1M]

I was genuinely surprised with how stringent SA Gun Law is. A common perception is that it is a fairly lawless place and it does indeed have a very high level of crime including violent crime with guns readily available, I guess like here illegal firearms are readily available, but to obtain an FAC the criteria you have to meet are quite onerous, perhaps slightly more so than ours.

To obtain the right to apply for an FAC you have to prove you have been trained in the weapon you wish to own before you can apply for the right to own an FAC. If that is granted then it is not issued automatically, you have to prove your need/reason for possession before you can actually apply for the issue of an FAC and at that point a background check is done to see if you are of good character, only then would one be issued. If you want a gun for home defence then there are several steps to proving need before you would be granted the FAC.

Not sure about the requirements for storage, etc but sounds pretty well controlled to me.

[saddler]

...sounds pretty well controlled to me.

Some people are prone to hearing things too!

Well controlled? From what perspective?

Have you even looked at the levels of illegal gun ownership?
Massively greater than most any other country...

What about the ease with which criminals acquire fully automatic weapons?

Yes, "very well controlled" = as a means of population control...nothing to do with crime prevention, in a country with one of the highest murder rates anywhere...

[M1Charles1M]

...sounds pretty well controlled to me.

Some people are prone to hearing things too! From what perspective?

Well controlled? From what perspective? From the perspective that controls do exist - I make no observation about whether they are policed properly!

Have you even looked at the levels of illegal gun ownership?
Massively greater than most any other country... I referenced it loosely above, some people are prone to not reading things properly!

What about the ease with which criminals acquire fully automatic weapons? Africa as a Continent is awash with Automatic Weapons, buy an AK for a few Dollars, thats no big secret or surprise?

Yes, "very well controlled" = as a means of population control...nothing to do with crime prevention, in a country with one of the highest murder rates anywhere...

as a means of population control...Really?

[EagerNoSkill]

Some points
Well controlled? From what perspective?
Have you even looked at the levels of illegal gun ownership?
Massively greater than most any other country...
What about the ease with which criminals acquire fully automatic weapons?
Yes, "very well controlled" = as a means of population control...nothing to do with crime prevention, in a country with one of the highest murder rates anywhere...

Distinction exists between lawful civilian conduct and criminal conduct
As is typically the case the lawful citizen complies with the legal requirements and regulations. It makes them an "easy" target for politicians to focus on to show change.

Application of law http://www.saha.org.za/news/2012/Januar ... oncern.htm
According to materials released by the South African Police Service (SAPS) to the South African History Archive (SAHA) under the Promotion of Access to Information Act, the problem of lost and stolen firearms is rampant amongst police detachments across the country. The statistics that were released suggest that 18,196 police firearms have been lost or stolen during the 5 year period beginning 1 April 2005 and ending on 31 March 2011. The sheer volume of the missing weapons, shocking as it may be, is perhaps not the most worrisome trend revealed by the statistics. The concentration of missing weapons in particular regions and police stations show that systemic checks and balances designed to prevent the loss or theft of police firearms have not reached all corners of South Africa. The Northern Cape had 232 firearms lost or stolen over the course of the five years, making it the province with the fewest missing weapons. Comparatively, Gauteng Province saw 6,163 firearms go missing over the same period. Certainly, the difference in population between these provinces accounts for a portion of the large discrepancy. However, the fact that over 2,700 weapons went missing in Gauteng in a single year (2006/2007) is hair-raising.

Systemic Failure
In the case we have the accumulative effect of multiple systems failing... simplistically it adds up and the ripple affect follows the plumbing principle - that "that in high rises that a small piece of excretus accumulates other pieces of excretus as it travels down the pipe till you end up with a big chunk of excretus"
POLICE
* Policeman are undermanned and under resourced.
* They have a major problem of incompetent management and leadership and corruption. *
* Extensive criminal activity and collusion exists.
* Literacy rate are poor and the docket management and filing very vulnerable.

JUDICIARY
* Courts are undermanned and under resourced.
* They have a major problem of incompetent management and leadership and corruption.
* Extensive criminal activity and collusion exists.
* Literacy rate are poor and the docket management and filing very vulnerable.

JAILS (aka Crime College)
* Jails are overcrowded and the guards are undermanned and under resourced.
* They have a major problem of incompetent management and leadership and corruption.
* Extensive criminal activity and collusion exists.
* jail management is poor and hard core-prisoners readily can escape .

CRIMINALS
They are brazen and have no fear of the cops.
You have very little chance of being caught and when you do you can test the system - since it will likely fail due to incompetence or indifference or bribery.
They keep performing the crimes and getting better and more refined at it. A substantial percentage of hardcore criminals have HIV-AIDS due to lifestyle exposure and the Great Garlic Olive Oil fraud that has led to a national HIV-AIDS rate that is 40% PLUS

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/ma ... outhafrica
Campaigners yesterday condemned remarks by South Africa's health minister, who made clear her preference for the health-giving properties of garlic, lemon, olive oil and beetroot over the drugs that the World Health Organisation wants provided to save lives in the population worst-hit by Aids in the world.
Manto Tshabalala-Msimang told a news conference in Cape Town that the government would not be pressured into meeting targets set by the WHO and UNAIDS, the joint UN programme on the disease. Far too little was known about the side effects, she said, echoing comments some years ago by President Thabo Mbeki, who doubted whether HIV caused Aids.
"I don't want to be pushed or pressurised by a target of 3 million people on anti-retrovirals by 2005," she said, referring to the UNAIDS and WHO target for the developing world.
"WHO set that target themselves. They didn't consult us. I don't see why South Africa today must be the scapegoat for not reaching the target."
Only 700,000 people in developing countries are so far on treatment. The WHO has identified South Africa as one of the countries that could derail the programme. It has the highest number of people with the virus in the world - 5.3 million - and between 600 and 1,000 people die of Aids every day.

If you have lived a life of violence and have HIV-AIDS you have ZERO life expectations. the societal sanction of prison etc holds NO fear - since you will be dead way before that risks is truly manifested.
So you want you BMW, Beer and Pussy now .... you have no respect for law and rights.... you live by a code that I take what I want.
Woman are less valueable than cows - they are things and if I want sex with her - it is my decision. It is not rape!

These criminals can buy or rent guns from serving police officers, steal them from police stations or military bases or bring then in from various african countries (Mozambique was the key supplier for 20 years)

[Chuck]

WOW eager......good post.

[Andy632]

Not that much difference between South Africa, West Africa, East Africa and maybe North Africa then is there?

I remember asking a colleague in Angola where he managed to get so much ammo for his "illegal" AK47; His answer, just buy it from the first cop you see! Nae Joking; Africa is Africa, end of story!
:roll:

[Rarms]

TIA razz

[honsu]

This reminds me of a story I saw on the web that private security personnel out number the army and police combined.

They are all well armed and equipped one company even had there own chopper.


Some politicians are worried about the risk to national security if they turned on the government.

I thought south Africa had anti mercenary laws so these companies I assume have found a way around them?



:flag5: zzzzom zzzzom

[Chuck]

There is a difference between security and mercenary y'know...admittedly not always clear.

Paranoid government..never.

[Andy632]

This reminds me of a story I saw on the web that private security personnel out number the army and police combined.

They are all well armed and equipped one company even had there own chopper.


Some politicians are worried about the risk to national security if they turned on the government.

I thought south Africa had anti mercenary laws so these companies I assume have found a way around them?



:flag5: zzzzom zzzzom

I do know one thing about the Private Security companies, at least they respond very very quickly unlike the SA police farce who are even worse than ours.