Calling all Servicemen and woman

[saddler]

The official name for the SLR repalcement was, I believe, "the rifle". It never caught on. Pretty much everyone called it the SA80. The official designation was indeed L85A1 and then L85A2.

Q2: Any more L*A* guns post WWII that you know and I don't? I can think of at least 7 possibilities.

L32A1
L74A1

[rufrdr]

I was issued a 'rifle, M16A1' even though it was actually a XM16E1 but they looked pretty much the same. We never called them 'rifles' they were 'weapons' or M16s (even though only the USAF was issued M16s at that time, the Army (me) and Marines had the A1). The one thing you never referred to was your gun because the drill sergeant would make you recite 'this is my weapon, this is my gun, this is for killing, this is for fun' while doing push ups, maybe with his boot pushing down on your back while you did them!

[Gaz]

The official name for the SLR repalcement was, I believe, "the rifle". It never caught on. Pretty much everyone called it the SA80. The official designation was indeed L85A1 and then L85A2.

OK, quiz time:

Question 1: what are the makers names, official names and common terminology for:


L1A1 - 7.62mm Self Loading Rifle. FN FAL.
L39A1 - 7.62mm ... erm, converted No.4 target rifle thingy issued to military units.
L42A1 - 7.62mm converted No.4(T) sniper's rifle. Enfield.
L81A1 - 7.62mm Cadet Target Rifle. Parker Hale.
L85A1 - 5.56mm Rifle. Royal Ordnance Enfield and Nottingham.
L85A2 - 5.56mm Rifle. RO/Heckler and Koch rework.
L96A1 - 7.62mm Accuracy International Arctic Warfare. Sniper's rifle.
L96A2 - um... as above with extra bells and whistles?
L98A1 - 5.56mm Cadet General Purpose. RO Enfield and Nottingham. "that pile of %^&!"
L98A2 - 5.56mm Cadet GP, H&K. "not an L85 with a semi-auto only trigger group, honest"
L115A1 - .338 AW sniper's rifle.

Not only do I now feel excessively geeky, I can also think of a few more!

In answer to Tower75's original question, I do know that the weapon training pamphlets for the SA80 series always emphasised calling the rifle by its "weapon identity number, L85/98/22/etc".

[dk6052]

During my phase 1 training in 2003 it was called 'the rifle 5.56'.

[PaulR]

The official name for the SLR repalcement was, I believe, "the rifle". It never caught on. Pretty much everyone called it the SA80. The official designation was indeed L85A1 and then L85A2.
Iain

OK, flippant question and just to expand it slightly, are all British Rifles and indeed other bits of kit be it British or Foreign automatically issued with an A1 or Version 1, Mk1 or some such designation with the assumption that they will either need to be improved or modified in their lifetime?

If yes, it sort of demonstrates a lack of faith in the original product by everybody involved. I can understand it with aircraft, tanks ships etc where technology moves on but a firearm?

I guess what I'm getting at is why was the L85A1 ever introduced into service in the first place, it had obviously not undergone a rigorous enough trial period to uncover it's many flaws?

Was it introduced as the A1 or did it become the A1 when the A2 was first introduced?

It's a 'WW1 didn't exist until WW2 broke out' sort of question..........

PaulR

[saddler]

It's a 'WW1 didn't exist until WW2 broke out' sort of question..........
PaulR

Ya'd think so....ya'd be wrong though....

The term "First World War" was first used in September 1914 by the German philosopher Ernst Haeckel, who claimed that "there is no doubt that the course and character of the feared 'European War' ... will become the first world war in the full sense of the word."

The First World War was also the title of a 1920 history by the officer and journalist Charles à Court Repington.

...& there's use noted by some British officers in about 1915

[Tower75]

I guess what I'm getting at is why was the L85A1 ever introduced into service in the first place, it had obviously not undergone a rigorous enough trial period to uncover it's many flaws?

It's a very messy story, that one. In it's very, very basic form, when NATO were looking for a new general-service rifle cartridge in the 1970s to replace the 7.62x51mm they opened a competition to all NATO countries, and asked them to submit their designs.

We had been working on the Individual Weapon, L64 rifle that fired a .280 intermediate cartridge. So we submitted our cartridge, which basically outperformed most of the cartridges submitted in this NATO trial. However, when Belgium submitted the 5.56x45mm, which was basically identical to the US' .223 Remington cartridge, which was already being used in their M16 rifle, the new Belgium cartridge was adopted as standard.

So, with our cartridge veto'd, we simple took the L64, smashed it with a hammer and shoved a 5.56x45mm barrel and chamber up its bum and tried to fashion it into a working rifle, the L85. Suffice to say, it did not live up to the British Military's normally high standards.

Every "old soldier" I speak to seems to have hated the new "SA80", all the young squaddies I talk to seem to like it, though. Whether that's because we're on the new L85A2 ( I've heard the brand new L85s called the L85A3, though whether that's official, I don't know), and they work now, or simply because soldiers like whatever they're first issued, and dislike all "replacements", again, I don't know.

[saddler]

I guess what I'm getting at is why was the L85A1 ever introduced into service in the first place, it had obviously not undergone a rigorous enough trial period to uncover it's many flaws?

We had been working on the Individual Weapon, L64 rifle that fired a .280 intermediate cartridge.

...fired a what??

Try that again with your socks off... 25.4mm to the inch remember!

The L64, which I remember seeing on BBC's Tomorrows World fired a 4.85mm round - a necked down 5.56mm

The .280 round was what the earlier EM-1 & EM-2 designs had used; the latter also being offered in 7.62NATO

[Tower75]

Ok, I was wrong.

[Burner]

This is the M16a1, It is a 5.56 cal, select fire, gas operated, self jamming piece of s***.

IT will kill you.

Now then, this is the Springfield M 14, it is a 7.62 nato caliber, gas operated, self loading rifle. If you are lucky you will be issued one that is selectfire.
It is the worlds finest combat rifle.

That was about it.

I was also given a pretty good speach about the M1 Garand also.