Service rifle match at Bisley, 6th Jan

[Jnadreth]

Rarms... you're missing the point.

In my opinion, Service Rifle competitions should be shot with "as-issued" service rifles whether it's Classic, Veteran or Modern! Therefore, the "Modern" service rifle is going to be a bolt-action that was designed after 1946, e.g., the AI L96A1/AW, L39, L42, Zfk55, etc, etc. They should be "as-issued".

Straight-pull AR's have never been Service Rifles!

Could always use some Steyr M95's It was issued in WWI......You never said it had to be British :lol:

[Rarms]

Meanwhile back on the range the Stats speak for themselves - Dec CSR Scores: Historic / vet - 152 short & 130 mid range vs 231 & 184 at top for black, scope, bipod / gizmo gun etc - putting ironsight No4s etc bottom or last 5 of all scores. ~Same for previous 2 rnds = No contest, outclassed.

I agree to an extent, but Dantheman shot the month before with an eotech ( open red dot) and he got very comparable scores ( in fact beat me on 4x mag) albeit we only shot to 300 from memory.

I have only shot in two of them so far, but for me they are more fun shooting than serious, although that may change if I get better I shot them with a straight pull Ar15 though like most of the entrants in service optics class.

The chap at last month with the historic didn't know his aim points for ranges, and from memory was holding off to compensate at the longer ranges as wind age as well as elevation was wrong. Think he had fun though and technically he was first in his class so fair play to him :)

Or BUTS/TNHR organise a No4/SMLE/Mosin etc only shoot? (with & without bayonets with a final charge to the :cheers: bar) & we call it Classic Service Rifle?

The NRA website suggests it is civilian service rifle.

[hitchphil]

Although some rather impressive individual results using iron sight rifles the overall results from Nov, Oct & April are all very similar. Its a 1 class equipment defined shoot.

I think 'Individual' might be missing the point too? - Classifying by equipment is one thing but the target & time combinations need to be compatible too. Fig12c @ or over 200m with an iron sight classic rifle is a spray & pray target & its normally a 100yd snap target? at 300yds its ~4MoA wide vs a rifle that can do ~1/3 the target at best (i.e. bolted down - my No4 can do that but the clubs Mk1 certainly cant). The lack of classic entries might have something to do with this than a dogged belief in how fine their old rifles are.

There is a shoot held annually that is a classic iron sight service rifle event, Rubins, Mausers, Mosies & Enfields etc etc - dont know when it is but will find out.

[lapua338]

Jnadreth... it should be anything you like as long as it's "as-issued" and falls into the Classic, Veteran or Modern categories.

I thought the whole point of the discipline was "Service Rifle" hence the title. Anything else is contrived.

[Individual]

I thought the whole point of the discipline was "Service Rifle" hence the title. Anything else is contrived.

Using an 'as issued' rifle isn't really the whole point, and I don't agree that makes it 'contrived'. Most shooting competitions have some sort of equipment related rules and classes, CSR is no different in that regard.

Its more about an engaging and interesting course of fire, which involves movement, shooting from different positions and the 'stress' of snap shooting using what we have - whilst having enormous fun, is the whole point.

Try it - you might even like lt.

[lapua338]

I agree, shooting should be about interesting courses of fire, with movement, different positions, etc, etc.

So, if it's not shot with a "Service Rifle" and involves practical rifle skills, accurate range estimation, marksmanship, etc, then should it be called Practical or "Tactical" Rifle?

[Rarms]

You still seem to be overlooking the fact it is called: Civilian Service Rifle.

To me that would suggest you could use civilian versions of issued service rifles.

[lapua338]

That's the point... from a purists point of view the current batch of Section 1 AR-type, 30M1 carbine, SLR/FAL, Steyr AUG straight-pull rifles are not and never have been a service rifle.

They're a fraud, sham, imposter of a rifle and are simply a three-dimensional representation of the genuine article. In my opinion these rifles debase the concept of Service Rifle.

I reiterate, if it's not shot with a "Service Rifle" and involves practical rifle skills, accurate range estimation, marksmanship, etc, then should it be called Practical Rifle?

I suppose it's all down to semantics and let's agree to disagree.

[ovenpaa]

I am inclined to agree with Lapua338 on this, I still remember shooting a CSR club comp alongside someone with a fully slicked and tricked LanTac AR clone with competition trigger and precision open sights adjustable for windage etc. I had to aim off with my .303 P14 finished as it came out of the factory 90 plus years ago. He beat me by more points than I care to remember.

His rifle was a stunning piece of equipment however quite how it could be the civilian version of a military item is beyond me, yes it sort of looked similar but that was all...

[M99]

Like lapua I say it is PR and nothing more.