Royalty protection Shoot hole in car

[Dangermouse]

I thought that I would get a post on regards this before someone else does and hopefully assist with giving some understanding as to how this can occur.

I have to make an assumption that the firearm in question was a 9mm H&K MP5, not a massive assumption as it is the standard for this kind of deployment.

Due to the nature of the work the Firearms can not be kept in a safe, in the rear of the vehicle or in a slip etc they have to be kept at hand in condition 1 ready to be deployed now.

It is not practical or desirable to keep the firearm in your hands for a full tour of duty which can last over 12 hours depending on the subject and the schedule. During that time you will need your hands for mundane tasks like map reading, using the phone, checking where you are on the schedule and updating others as to your progress etc.
The default position is to place the operators MP5 down in the foot well and depending on the vehicle it can often be learnt against the centre drive shaft housing, giving good access but not getting in the way.

The MP5 Safety selector lever is ambidextrous, you can operate it from both sides and it does not take much to push it off. The safety can be pushed on to the fire position when placing the firearm in to the foot well and it rubs against the car interior. The same has also happened to me when placing the MP5 in to a slip. So a firearm that did have the safety applied is now live.
What follows after that depends on equal amounts of good luck and good firearm handling procedures, although you can argue that luck has nothing to do with it.

There is a possibility that a foreign item has managed to become engaged with the trigger after the safety has come off. The odds of this happening are slim, but when you consider how many hours are spent with these firearms, how many times this safety issue arises, then the odds are that sooner or later a perfectly good car gets an unwanted hole in the foot well.

The management have been made aware of this issue and they can not give a solution other than to say that each Officer is responsible for their own firearm and will have to account for their actions. A great big cop out.

I have spoken to people who have worked in Military Close Protection, special forces and RUC/PSNI, and they have all worked this way when conducting these type of duties.

[techguy]

Thanks for the explanation DM, I hadn't even been aware of this incident until you posted this thread. Accidents happen, no matter how well trained and disciplined people are.

Fortunately nobody was hurt and hopefully nobody will lose their job over it either!

Out of interest, what would you suggest the solution to the issue? Modification to the MP5? Change the MP5 so some other gun?

[Sim G]

Indeed. If anyone else ever used the "Q" range cars in Ballykinler you would see how many ND's had occured by top of the evolutionary tree operators.....

Sometimes bad stuff happens and no doubt the holer than thou, who drag a gun out twice a month for a range session will have all the answers and all the critisism.....

BTW, I didn't know the weapon had been mentioned. If just the caliber, could not have been a Glock?

[Dougan]

I don't understand why they have to have a round up the spout, when it only takes a second to cock the weapon...?

[Blackstuff]

Wasn't even aware of the incident, glad no one is hurt. Aren't Royal protection cars bulletproof BTW??

[Sim G]

And if one hand is capacitated during the contact initiation? Or you are dragging someone away or driving? I could go on....

[techguy]

I guess its quicker to release the safety than cock the gun. Also releasing the safety can be done with both hands on the gun, cocking it requires one hand off.

I don't know for sure, just guessing!

[Sim G]

I'm guessing most haven't carried a weapon in harms way....

[techguy]

Nope, most of us probably have not..

[Dougan]

And if one hand is capacitated during the contact initiation? Or you are dragging someone away or driving? I could go on....

Are MP5s really that hard to cock? - If you were in a vehicle could it not be cocked one-handed in your lap, or if you were standing would it not be slung across the front? - I can understand where in extreme cases that it needs to be 'ready to go', but surely on a routine basis the dangers outweigh the benefits?