What constitutes expanding ammo?

[majordisorder]

I've been looking at different .45 bullets and found some hollow points in a suitable weight that I'd like to try. Now I though hollow points would be considered as expanding, but a local reloading company says not, are they right?

[Blackstuff]

I think the key phrase is ammunition that is designed to expand . . . Thats how Sierra Matchkings and a few other notable exceptions get away with not being classified as non-expanding. I would however be very surprised if any pistol ammo could be similarly excused :-P How big is the cavity? Any pics?

[M99]

These are the important bit from the Firearms Guidance manual:

3.16 Category (xiv) refers to ammunition
incorporating a projectile that is designed or
adapted to expand in a controlled manner.
It is the kind of ammunition used in
deerstalking and vermin control because it is
more likely than non-expanding ammunition
to ensure a quick, clean kill. Semi-jacketed
soft point and hollow point are typical forms
of expanding ammunition, but care must be
taken to distinguish between match target
hollow point ammunition, which has a tiny
hole at the front for manufacturing purposes,
and true hollow point. Match hollow point
rounds, such as the Sierra Match King, are
not prohibited, neither are flat-nosed bullets
designed to be used in tubular magazines.
This is to prevent magazine explosions
caused by a pointed bullet resting on the
primer of the cartridge ahead of it. All bullets
will distort on impact, but only those which
were designed or adapted to do so in a
predictable manner fit this category.


3.17 Category (xv) extends the prohibition
on the various types of prohibited
ammunition to the actual bullet or missile
itself, not just the complete round of
ammunition (a complete round consists of
the bullet, the cartridge case, the propellant
and the primer). Certain categories of shooter
such as deerstalkers and vermin controllers
are exempt from the requirement to obtain
the authority of the Secretary of State to
possess expanding ammunition (see Chapter
4) and will have the appropriate condition
entered on their certificate (see Appendix 3).
There is no need for the bullets to be listed
separately on the certificate, other than in the
circumstances described below. However,
where a certificate holder requests large
quantities of bullets, it should be remembered
that the total number of bullets authorised
counts towards their overall limit on
possession of expanding ammunition. The
exception to the rule on listing bullets
separately on a certificate applies in the case
of a certificate holder who wishes to possess
a variety of different types of bullets. This
may be reflected in a relatively higher
overall limit on possession and, in these
circumstances, the bullets may be listed
separately to help avoid unnecessary
stockpiling of complete rounds. It is not
necessary for the dealer making the sale to
record transactions of expanding bullets on
the certificate but the sale should be recorded
in the dealer’s register.

[M99]

For a full copy of the booklet

http://www.countryside-alliance.org.uk/ ... idance.pdf

Mike

[majordisorder]

I think the key phrase is ammunition that is designed to expand . . . Thats how Sierra Matchkings and a few other notable exceptions get away with not being classified as non-expanding. I would however be very surprised if any pistol ammo could be similarly excused :-P How big is the cavity? Any pics?

I'm pretty sure it was these Speer bullets. Based on what the website says they don't seem to be specialist match ammo, more multi-purpose.

With the descriptions posted about the regs these don't seem to fit outside "expanding" to me, strange the RFD suggested they would. I think I'll give them a miss and try to find another source of jacketed <200 grn 45's.

[Chapuis]

From the limited information so far it would seem that the company are trying to offload expanding bullets on you majordisorder. I would certainly give them a miss because personally I can't think of any .45 bullets with a hollow point that wouldn't be regarded as expanding.

[Blackstuff]

From the limited information so far it would seem that the company are trying to offload expanding bullets on you majordisorder. I would certainly give them a miss because personally I can't think of any .45 bullets with a hollow point that wouldn't be regarded as expanding.

+1 I'd actually be tempted to report the dealer for trying to sell those as S1 ammo. If you'd been caught with them you'd be off to prison for 5 years

[majordisorder]

From the limited information so far it would seem that the company are trying to offload expanding bullets on you majordisorder. I would certainly give them a miss because personally I can't think of any .45 bullets with a hollow point that wouldn't be regarded as expanding.

They didn't have them in stock, but suggested them as appropriate for target shooting (which is what I want them for). I think I might think twice before taking advice from them again though

[Doz]

I'm pretty sure it was these Speer bullets. Based on what the website says they don't seem to be specialist match ammo, more multi-purpose.

Unless I'm reading it wrongly, the web page gives their recommended use as 'personal protection'. On that basis I'd assume they were expanding, and I'd be very suprised if they didn't get you into big trouble here! smile2