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Does this happen around the world - for example the British Team are off shooting now - is ammo supplied at the event for all competitors? or do they take their own? (I am sure I read someone had just loaded either 1300 or 13,000 rounds to go)

Mike

MiLisCer wrote:Does this happen around the world - for example the British Team are off shooting now - is ammo supplied at the event for all competitors? or do they take their own? (I am sure I read someone had just loaded either 1300 or 13,000 rounds to go)

Mike

Most places allow handloads, often with restrictions (e.g. max bullet weight 156, or even specifying the use of a specific bullet). Canada switched to allow handloads relatively recently, and the Canadians I've spoken to felt that it created a barrier to entry into the sport for youth that has had a definite negative effect. The CG uses issued ammo for TR. At the Delhi Games there was a motion to allow handloads in future (with rigid restrictions - no neck turning for example) and the motion was unanimously voted down.
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rox wrote:

MiLisCer wrote:Does this happen around the world - for example the British Team are off shooting now - is ammo supplied at the event for all competitors? or do they take their own? (I am sure I read someone had just loaded either 1300 or 13,000 rounds to go)

Mike

Most places allow handloads, often with restrictions (e.g. max bullet weight 156, or even specifying the use of a specific bullet). Canada switched to allow handloads relatively recently, and the Canadians I've spoken to felt that it created a barrier to entry into the sport for youth that has had a definite negative effect. The CG uses issued ammo for TR. At the Delhi Games there was a motion to allow handloads in future (with rigid restrictions - no neck turning for example) and the motion was unanimously voted down.
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From what you say it would appear that there is a general move (a requirement at least) in the direction of allowing handloads and I too read the bit about someone (Ian I think) loading 13,000 rounds for the British Team. I'm sure the Delhi motion was voted down by the old school scared of moving forward or having to consider and adjust to something new. I fail to see why any of this restricts youth joining the sport as there is no reason why they cannot use manufactured match ammunition until they decide which way they want to go. The youth argument seems fatuous in the light of the options available to counter it.

I think there is room for both, when I competed I enjoyed just bellying down with issue ammunition knowing that it was test of my shooting ability only just as much as enjoyed bellying down in other competitions knowing that it was also a test of my handloading skills.

I also think there is some merit in the NRA's view about making it easy to encourage new shooters/competitors and I think the level playing field view is helpful to this. There is too much buying of points in competitive shooting nowadays and sometimes the skill aspect seems to get lost. That is why I predominantly shot military rifle.

I can see both points of view - but what is stopping someone with the "Money" simply going out and buying a rifle/action/barrel or whatever that simply suits the RWS ammo perfectly - same result, money buys an advantage - unless you start supplying rifles too?

Mike

MiLisCer wrote:I can see both points of view - but what is stopping someone with the "Money" simply going out and buying a rifle/action/barrel or whatever that simply suits the RWS ammo perfectly - same result, money buys an advantage - unless you start supplying rifles too?

Mike

Exactly my point Mike. Money still averts fairness, so why bother with the cost and financial outlay of stocking up with ammunition for competitions when it seems the rest of the world is moving on anyway. Part of the NRA malais maybe?

If it is such a heart felt belief in fairness why do the British Team compete overseas using their own ammunition; smacks of hypocrisy.

Nothing miliscer, thats the game as I see it, however to shoot everyone needs a rifle so they do invest in one and as I said money talks. Handloading is yet another expense however and that extra investment to have a chance might just be the decider against for tyro shooters.

MiLisCer wrote:I can see both points of view - but what is stopping someone with the "Money" simply going out and buying a rifle/action/barrel or whatever that simply suits the RWS ammo perfectly - same result, money buys an advantage - unless you start supplying rifles too?

Mike

There's only so much you could do to adapt the rifle to the ammo, especially within factory chamber rules. Besides which, what would be the point? A reasonable quality rifle paired with RWS can easily shoot 3/4 of a minute, which gives you the maximum width of the bull to play with for wind. It comes down to releasing 10, 15, 60, 150 (or however many) good shots accompanied by good wind calls. Take the Jersey meeting last year - two leading shooters tied on 819 ex 825; that's 159 bulls in 165 shots. These guys aren't using particularly fancy or modern rifles. They are just exceptional shots, proven time after time. Third place was 7 points behind - i.e. dropping more than twice as many shots. In competitions that allow handloads the prize lists can have a very different complexion, with people driving efficient bullets very very fast reducing their deficit at long range where even the best of the best loose the odd point in challenging conditions. Potentially the choice to allow handloads or not is not simply a choice of ammunition, it can be a choice of whether you want the competition to be won by marksmanship on the range or by technical means in the loading room.

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ColinR wrote:If it is such a heart felt belief in fairness why do the British Team compete overseas using their own ammunition; smacks of hypocrisy.

I imagine it's a case of if the overseas competition allows the use of 'own ammunition', the British team would have to compete at a disadvantage, rather than hipocrisy. "When in Rome' etc...

ColinR wrote:If it is such a heart felt belief in fairness why do the British Team compete overseas using their own ammunition; smacks of hypocrisy.

Because if they don't take ammo (or have it made locally) the rifles don't go 'bang'. There is no alternative. Would you have them take Privi when everyone else is using handloads? How would that be 'fair'? We compete in SA under South African rules, and try to win within those rules. Same in UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand wherever. It is not hypocritical in the slightest.

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