The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I'm 65 and thought my eyes were pretty good since I don't wear glasses, but when this 15 year old can spot .22 holes in the black target area at 25 yards I realise things have deteriorated. I shoot mostly with S&B 25X scopes, so I guess that kind of compensates.

We are just applying for Camerons FAC and I have already given him a gun cabinet I can no longer use, so I don't envisage storing his guns. His problem is earning enough money to buy a service rifle (his preference) but I was surprised that Fultons have offered to build him a Mk IV out of new parts for only £700-800. Since I supply the guns and cartridges it falls to him that he cleans the guns under a very watchful eye - if nothing else a good learning curve. He wants to join the Marines so a good discipline as well.

Oh and beware those young eyes! They can outshoot us every time, these days I have to resort to every trick I know to gain the upper hand especially at 1000 yards plus.

I used to give him the best reloaded ammunition and on his first try at 900m with my AI he got, if I remember right, 8 vbulls out of 35 shots - amazed us all on a rainy day at Warminster. So we told him it was supposed to be difficult and that seems to have thrown him!! Also he doesn't get the best ammo any more!

Mine gets milsurp these days and still managed to plink away at a 48" frame at 1200 yards earlier this year with a 10X tactical KAPS. Mine is a bit older than yours and I suspect he could do with glasses for long distance these days however he is yet to admit it. He also has a hankering for an old Pre45 action of some form as he keeps eyeing up my 4(T)

ovenpaa wrote:Mine gets milsurp these days and still managed to plink away at a 48" frame at 1200 yards earlier this year with a 10X tactical KAPS. Mine is a bit older than yours and I suspect he could do with glasses for long distance these days however he is yet to admit it. He also has a hankering for an old Pre45 action of some form as he keeps eyeing up my 4(T)

We shoot on 48" targets at Warminster at 900m (only just a smidge short of 1000yards) so I was amazed to see the size of the targets on Stickledown. I have no doubt they will help this ageing shooter, so must give them a try sometime soon.

If you ever get a chance to get down to the Butts at Stickeldown you will get a true feeling for the size of the frames, I have seen smaller garages.

.17HMR cannot be used on Melville because it is a rifle calibre and damages the sand bank that stops the bullets - that is official. Brian T of NRA called to tell me this today. Apparently it does more damage to the sand than any of the magnum pistol calibres shot from rifles or .50 cal black powder propelled lead balls. Does not make any sense to me and I wonder if it is a decision made from a practical point or purely theoretic. Having shot .17HMR for about 4 years in the field I know the bullet breaks apart hitting a twig let alone sand or earth. But hey ho if the NRA say it has greater penetration in sand than centre fire calibres then that must be right and the police and everyone else who prefer the .17HMR bullet to .22LR because it is frangible and with limited penetration must be wrong. End of subject as far as the NRA are concerned! I give up on this one :cool2: since I cannot imagine how 245ft/lbs of energy can be more damaging than 1496ft/lbs at a couple of hundred feet per second less than .17HMR, which is allowed. 'Rules is rules' as they say!!

Colin I am in total agreement with you regarding the .17hmr, all a bit silly really. Of course the other problem is obtaining non expanding .17hmr to use on the range, have you managed to source any?

Chapuis wrote:Colin I am in total agreement with you regarding the .17hmr, all a bit silly really. Of course the other problem is obtaining non expanding .17hmr to use on the range, have you managed to source any?

Hi Chapuis Yes all rather silly and I think something nobody has properly investigated. There is .17HMR FMJ available but I have not bothered tracking any down as I now have no use for it. I see plenty of low velocity 22 LR hollow point used on the range and if penetration is a problem in sand then expanding ammo would soon resolve that. I have expanding ammo on my FAC for all my guns and there again I can't see why it can't be used if legally held.

ColinR wrote:

Chapuis wrote:Colin I am in total agreement with you regarding the .17hmr, all a bit silly really. Of course the other problem is obtaining non expanding .17hmr to use on the range, have you managed to source any?

Hi Chapuis Yes all rather silly and I think something nobody has properly investigated. There is .17HMR FMJ available but I have not bothered tracking any down as I now have no use for it. I see plenty of low velocity 22 LR hollow point used on the range and if penetration is a problem in sand then expanding ammo would soon resolve that. I have expanding ammo on my FAC for all my guns and there again I can't see why it can't be used if legally held.

Colin,

Your FAC will specifically state that it can only be used for vermin/fox/deer etc or in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife.

Expanding cannot be used for target practice.

Mike

Thought expanding could be used for zeroing / practice but not for competitions or formal target shooting. Anyway I have .17HMR down for target shooting on my cert.