FAC Questions

[Pippin89]

- I understand I need a "good reason" to own a firearm, and shooting sports are just that. I was wondering, do I actually need to compete for things to be considered a "sport", or not? I plan to shoot a lot with my club(s) but I don't really want to compete right now.

No you don't need to be competing, as long as your club is Home Office Approved and you are a full member (i.e. you have completed the probationary period) then you can apply with that as your good reason.

- If I need to ask for a variation on my FAC, I understand I'll need to send it to my police force for them to make adjustments, because it's a paper document. The problem is, without FAC I can't do a lot of things if I understand it correctly (buy ammo, buy/sell rifles, etc), and from what I hear variations can take very long (months). Does it mean I'm blocked from all things I need FAC for for the period when I'm applying for a variation? For example, if the variation takes months, and I run out of ammo, it's a tough luck and I won't be able to buy more?

Pretty much that is correct. It will depend on your FEO and area. Mine was handled in 1 business day from receiving my FAC to sending out my new one. 5 day turn around for me from sending to receiving. If you are in an area where it takes longer, I have heard of FEO's allowing you to hold onto it until they need it and then you can send it when requested. But I don't think that is common. Your FEO will be able to guide you further on this when you have your interview.

[moriraaca]

Thank you very much, the second answer is not exactly what I would hope for perhaps but it does clarify everything!

Ok, couple more questions, this time about storage:

• Do I actually need to bolt the ammunition safe to anything? Reason says yes, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere. Maybe it's that obvious ;-)
• Is bolting the gun safe to the floor mandatory?
• Can the gun safe be mounted on a "platform"? By that I mean literally a few plywood pieces screwed/glued together, and attached to the bottom of the safe - or perhaps something more robust but similar conceptually - all done in a simple but reasonable matter, with platform dimensions matching the safe, nothing sticking out, no gaps etc.
• Are there any reasonable sources/regulations where I can check if the floor on the upper floor will handle a safe of a given weight and footprint?

A little bit of context perhaps behind those questions: I'm currently renting my apartment, and I obviously want to avoid making destructive changes as much as possible. Drilling walls is probably fine (although I'd like to avoid whenever possible) as I can patch those. But drilling wooden panels will leave marks forever. I also don't want to touch skirting, so I'd like to raise the safe on the platform just above the skirting level so there are no gaps between it and the wall (because from what I understand there can't be a gap there).

[Pippin89]

Yes it needs to be bolted to something solid. Ideally a solid brick wall rather than a stud wall. You can make a stud wall work but takes some extra engineering to make it solid enough. Doesn't need to be bolted to the floor as well, no. It can be as an alternative or extra bracing if the wall mounting isn't solid enough.
To put it into context, when the FEO inspects it, they will hang off it. If it moves at all it will be no good.
Raising it above the skirting should be ok, as long as it doesn't leave it vulnerable, e.g. from a crow bar attack, so a plywood blocking underneath is a good idea. Just make sure it is solid and not easily broken out.

The thing to remember about the safe, is that if someone came in with the intention of stealing guns, they would take an angle grinder to the side of the safe and take anything they want. No safe would stop them entirely. The safe will do 2 things. Stop a casual thief who didn't know guns were there, i.e. they don't have the tools to get into it. And slow down a gun thief to the point where police have a chance of arriving before they get into it.

[Blackstuff]

Thank you very much, the second answer is not exactly what I would hope for perhaps but it does clarify everything!

Ok, couple more questions, this time about storage:

• Do I actually need to bolt the ammunition safe to anything? Reason says yes, but I can't find it mentioned anywhere. Maybe it's that obvious ;-)
• Is bolting the gun safe to the floor mandatory?
• Can the gun safe be mounted on a "platform"? By that I mean literally a few plywood pieces screwed/glued together, and attached to the bottom of the safe - or perhaps something more robust but similar conceptually - all done in a simple but reasonable matter, with platform dimensions matching the safe, nothing sticking out, no gaps etc.
• Are there any reasonable sources/regulations where I can check if the floor on the upper floor will handle a safe of a given weight and footprint?

A little bit of context perhaps behind those questions: I'm currently renting my apartment, and I obviously want to avoid making destructive changes as much as possible. Drilling walls is probably fine (although I'd like to avoid whenever possible) as I can patch those. But drilling wooden panels will leave marks forever. I also don't want to touch skirting, so I'd like to raise the safe on the platform just above the skirting level so there are no gaps between it and the wall (because from what I understand there can't be a gap there).

My 2p:

Yes, to the exterior material of the property (or bolted to a cabinet thats already attached to it)

Short answer: No. Long(er) answer; as long as the means of attachment to the wall are substantial enough on their own e.g. some loft or mobile home arrangements will require as many attachment points as is physically possible.

Yes, raised is fine, but see above.

The property SHOULD have been built to The Building Regulations. If its a flat/apartment its probably got a substantially more sturdy floor than a standard 2 storey property. The fixings you're using for the wall will be able to carry the load of the majority of gun cabinets and their contents, and once in place will likely be carrying a lot of it anyway.

[Mattnall]

- I understand I need a "good reason" to own a firearm, and shooting sports are just that. I was wondering, do I actually need to compete for things to be considered a "sport", or not? I plan to shoot a lot with my club(s) but I don't really want to compete right now.
- If I need to ask for a variation on my FAC, I understand I'll need to send it to my police force for them to make adjustments, because it's a paper document. The problem is, without FAC I can't do a lot of things if I understand it correctly (buy ammo, buy/sell rifles, etc), and from what I hear variations can take very long (months). Does it mean I'm blocked from all things I need FAC for for the period when I'm applying for a variation? For example, if the variation takes months, and I run out of ammo, it's a tough luck and I won't be able to buy more?

You don't need to compete, or perhaps you can compete against yourself in the struggle to improve.

Don't worry about the variation just yet, you haven't even got the grant so this is jumping the gun somewhat (pardon the pun). Most counties I know of are processing variations online and my local ones at least are sending the new FAC out and asking for the old one to be returned to them (or in one county's case asking the holder to destroy it). This will mean you are never without FAC during this process. You can always buy ammo from the club and still go shoot.

As for security read this:
LINK

[Pete]

Back in the day, my then FEO warned me to always "stock up on ammo" before applying for a variation, just in case...

Pete

[SevenSixTwo]

• No need to compete, simply attend.
• You keep your original FAC/SGC while your variations are in - just send them a scan/copy if they request it.

Good luck with your application and happy shooting!

[moriraaca]

Thank you so much everyone, a lot of very helpful information! It seems that I might be able to fit a safe in my apartment in a way my FEO will approve after all :-)

Don't worry about the variation just yet, you haven't even got the grant so this is jumping the gun (...)

That's a fair comment - let me explain why I'm thinking so far ahead ;-) my plan is to ideally apply for 7 guns. I'm not planning to buy them all right away, but I do plan to buy them during the first year, so fairly quickly. From what I've heard however, Mets tend to not allow going over 3 guns on the first FAC. That means I'll need to make a lot of variations, relatively quickly (as quickly as Mets allow). Now I don't mind the cost of variation too much (although it stinks a bit), but hearing that variations can take a while, and that during the process I'd be constrained from shooting to some extent, I was a bit worried. I wanted to make sure I understand how things work, just to gather some arguments for the chat with FEO - who knows maybe I'd be able to convince him to add a gun or two to the certificate in such situation :-).

[Blackstuff]

Get shooting as much as possible in probation period and join several clubs. If you're already participating in the type of shooting that requires each of the guns you're asking for there's no real reason to limit you to an arbitrary number

[Mattnall]

That's a fair comment - let me explain why I'm thinking so far ahead ;-) my plan is to ideally apply for 7 guns. I'm not planning to buy them all right away, but I do plan to buy them during the first year, so fairly quickly. From what I've heard however, Mets tend to not allow going over 3 guns on the first FAC. That means I'll need to make a lot of variations, relatively quickly (as quickly as Mets allow). Now I don't mind the cost of variation too much (although it stinks a bit), but hearing that variations can take a while, and that during the process I'd be constrained from shooting to some extent, I was a bit worried. I wanted to make sure I understand how things work, just to gather some arguments for the chat with FEO - who knows maybe I'd be able to convince him to add a gun or two to the certificate in such situation :-).

Mention all this to the FEO when you have a visit, things can change even at that late stage of the application process. If your reasons are agreeable you'll be able to get more of what you want.

Just try not to appear too eager and set yourself unreasonable goals, you might come across as a bit too precocious or trying to walk before you can run. Get the club probationary period out the way but try as many of the different disciplines you want rifles for as you can. Enter the postal comps or club run comps and show this to the FEO. The more evidence of the needs for everything you are asking for the better your chances are of getting them.