The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I have two 308s I use for plinking, 1 is a remmy 700 sporter in which I feed it 150 grn fmj infront of 25 grains of alliant 2400, for approx 2300fps, quite accurate,doesnt get to hot so I can continue shooting a liitle longer.
The second 308 is a Howa 1500 varmint heavy barrel,it has a thumbhole stock and in this I use
168 smk in front of 43 grains of Vit 140,also very accurate.
My 223 is a light sporter,standard 1 in 12 twist,in which I use 53grn SMK bullets ,loading with varget.this is also accurate. But what I want to know is anyone here use Vit 140 in 223.I dont mind Varget,but I can get larger tubs of Vit which buying larger means cheaper overall.
I might add my max shooting distance is only 200 yards,

Hi Col
How much are you paying for the N140 , I have to get some soon , just wondering if I need a second mortgage yet .
:lol:

Dave

Is it just me, isn't the 1:12 twist for a .223 unusual?

Didn't I post a powder manual on here somewhere?

That is because you are used to 1:8 for .224 bullets Christel. 1:12 is going to work with lighter bullets arounbd 50-55 grain. I have no experience of N140 in a .223 however I know people who use Varget (Similar) in both .223 and .308 so would be worth researching further.

christel wrote:Is it just me, isn't the 1:12 twist for a .223 unusual?

Didn't I post a powder manual on here somewhere?

1:14 was the standard twist for .223/5.56 before heavier bullets than 55gr became available.
You must remember that the .223 was developed for the US Military as the 5.56 M193 ball cartridge in the late 50s early 60s which originally used a 55gr FMJ with a 1:14 on the Stonar and Armalite/M16s during the Vietnam War. Later 1:12 twist barrels were used and that became the norm for sporting rifles. The M16 A2 was still using a 1:12 twist in the early 90s but that would not stabalize the 62g SS109 bullet that the UK developed for the L85 (with a 1:9 if I remember correctly) in the 80's. Therefore a 1:12 is not unusual and probably more common than the faster twists in sporting rifles.

Steve

I have used N140 in 223 behind 69g SMKs. The joy of using N140 in 223 is that you are filling the case with what is for the caliber, a very slow powder, and you will never get enough of it in the case to over pressure the case.
24g of N140 is a compressed load that works very well out to 800yds in my rem 700 PSS.

Steve

"Pondering over things"

Thank you all for explaining :shakeshout:

I used to use Vhit but kept hearing that Varget was THE powder for lighter 22cal bullets. Being that its cheap, i changed and have since noticed an improvement in consistency for both my .223 ans 22-250.

I used to swear by Vhit but rarely use it now.

Dave 101 wrote:Hi Col
How much are you paying for the N140 , I have to get some soon , just wondering if I need a second mortgage yet .
:lol:

Dave

I pay £70 for a kilo so it works out cheaper than varget at £38 a lb

Steve E wrote:

christel wrote:Is it just me, isn't the 1:12 twist for a .223 unusual?

Didn't I post a powder manual on here somewhere?

1:14 was the standard twist for .223/5.56 before heavier bullets than 55gr became available.
You must remember that the .223 was developed for the US Military as the 5.56 M193 ball cartridge in the late 50s early 60s which originally used a 55gr FMJ with a 1:14 on the Stonar and Armalite/M16s during the Vietnam War. Later 1:12 twist barrels were used and that became the norm for sporting rifles. The M16 A2 was still using a 1:12 twist in the early 90s but that would not stabalize the 62g SS109 bullet that the UK developed for the L85 (with a 1:9 if I remember correctly) in the 80's. Therefore a 1:12 is not unusual and probably more common than the faster twists in sporting rifles.

Steve

Based on what??

When Eugene Stoner developed the 222 Special, while with Armalite, it was a purely commecial cartridge aimed at military contracts/customers. The British adopted it prior to the US: and the first US branch of service to take it on was the Air Force

My AR15A2 - bought in '85 - had the then newly adopted twist rate of 1:7

The SS109 bullet was a BELGIAN design

The majority of the older sportng guns WILL have a 1:12 rate, the newer ones are more likely to have one of the faster rates

Suggest you double check some data