What on earth is this!!!????

[huntervixen]

Hi all,

I am a seasoned shooter and FAC holder and have a keen interest in all eras of Firearms history. I would consider myself to be reasonably knowledgeable on the subject....until this "thing" put a spanner in the works!

I came across this 19th Century pocket pistol / blank firing/ Cap gun/ Cigar Lighter.....your guess is as good as mine....the other day, while having a clear out....had it for years, can't remember were it came from and it has me totally stumped!!!

This is a percussion type, single shot, muzzle loading, internal hammer, push button operated...er.. thing.

It has a smooth bored open barrel and seems reasonably nicely made..and heavy for its size (Firearm grade steel??), so I am surmising its strongly enough made to shoot i.e not a cigar lighter!

It has a swing out platform, for some type of detonating disk type thing but has no manufacture or proof marks anywhere on it.

16 cm total length, 8 cm smooth bore barrel and (roughly) 10mm in bore diamiter....i'm a bit stumped really, what the hell is it...

So if someone pointed this at you would you:

A - Get the Cigars out?

B- Hand over your wallet?

Come on guys, somebody must know???

Cheers, John.

[Ovenpaa]

Well I like it but I have no idea what it is..... :?

[Tower75]

Well... that is an odd little thing.

During the "percussion orgy" time, as I'm sure you know, there were numerous percussion systems available until percussion cap became the "norm", and even then some of these oddies were still in vogue.

I can only asume that you load the barrel as per any muzzle-loader, and the breech takes a percussion "tablet" - either a solid tablet of percussion compound, or it was sandwiched between two bits of paper, like the US Springfield 1855 [?] used and what can be found on modern day childrens' cap-guns, though these are a rare item these days too.

As to "what" it is... no idea. The 19th Century was awash with private firearm makers, and not all of them were "known" or had stamps. It simply could have been made my Mr. Bloke at 151 The Street, Sudbury, Suffolk in 1851, who knows :?

Though, I am expecting someone to come and blow my explanation out of the water

[huntervixen]

Victorian Parlor game for blowing Fathers lamb chops off perhaps?

Flash----Bang------and a foot long flame!!

[Tower75]

It's probably a "Would you mind awefully taking your hand out of my purse"-gun [click]

[huntervixen]

Hi Andrew,

all good info, mate, this little pistol has really fired up my curiosity, I can honestly say I have never seen anything like it!!

feet up in front of the fire with my reading glasses on tonight and a pile of reference books, I think!

Looking forward to the P53 bayonet mate...I just bought a really nice snap cap for her, any idea were I can buy the old girl a Tompion?

Cheers, John.

[huntervixen]

Morning all,


My research into this unusual Percussion pistol, has led me to a rather fascinating 18 Century character, Reverent Alexander John Forsyth, he was a Presbyterian Minister with a fascination for hunting, repairing guns and firearm inervation...must have been very interesting sermons!!!!

He developed the rare percussion system employed in this pistol in about 1820-30 (along with James Watts, the inventor of the steam engine), I am working on the hypotheses that this was maybe one of the demonstration models, to show a practical use for this lock design, developed by local gun makers for them...such men were the backbone of this country... or perhaps, an American gun trade variation on his Pill/Patch lock design.....fascinating stuff.

Cheers, John.

[Tower75]

Uh-huh.

Alexander John Forsyth is the father of all percussion devices.

He first of all developed his "sent bottle" lock, with used a "bottle" of powdered percussion formula which was mounted onto the side of the lock. You would rotate the bottle to deposit a small amount of percussion-stuff into the firearm's vent and then turn the bottle back to battery.

The firearm was fitted with an odd thing call a "hammer", not a traditional cock (Ooo'er) the hammer would strike a plunger ontop of the bottle which would detonate the percussion powder in the vent.

Story goes that Napoleon himself offered to buy the design from Forsyth, as he started to play around with this idea from about 1805 - perhaps luckily, Foresyth declined.

From the scent bottle grew all sorts of wired and wonderful percussion systems;

tablet
taper
tube
etc

until they turned into the percussion cap that we all know today

And the story goes he only invented it because while out duck hunting the ducks would fly away at the flash in the pan and be gone before the main charge in his flint lock would discharge. :lol:

[Watcher]

Pal of mine inherited a small percussion pocket or muff pistol. You unscrew the barrel, fill a small pocket with powder, sit a ball on it and replace the barrel. Cap in the normal way and off you go.

One evening, after a rather good BBQ and a few beers he thought he'd give it a go in his garage. Loaded it up and let it go.... ball went through the heavy wooden garage doors and buried itself in the brieze block wall at the back of the garage. We didn't do that again....