The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

http://www.ammoland.com/2012/01/04/gun- ... ith-obama/

Just read this article, the following words made me think what if..?

"In his recent screed, Jackson even holds up Great Britain as a shining example of how wonderful a disarmed society can be. But the world witnessed the harsh reality of England’s gun ban this summer, when innocent shopkeepers and homeowners were forced to cower in fear, unable to protect their property and their loved ones from thousands of rioting thugs."

If we could, would we defend ourselves?

Would the whole riot situation have been made worse/better by being able to defend ourselves?

Maybe it is a mind set we do not have?

My view is,

I would use any and all means at my disposal to protect my self, my family and my property proportionate to the threat presented......

read into that what ever you like

Alan

You can't protect yourself on these shores, there's always some wishy washy idiot spouting about "criminal rights"* quoted from somewhere just this morning,


"I am not wrong about using a gun in self defense being murder.
1) you can only use minimum force that must be commensurate and proportionate.
2) you might get away with using a weapon of opportunity. However a gun should be locked away.
3) if you used a gun you have either not kept it safely or have had time to go and fetch it this it is premeditated not a weapon of opportunity."

Just an example but this is what you're up against in the UK, and this was about self defense, not protecting ones property!

The minimum and proportionate argument really really fecks me off, if someone breaks into my home, where my (common law(hehe this narks her)) wife and kids sleep they're fair game IMO and I shouldn't have to worry for one second about litigation caused by my actions, they chose to enter my home.

Michael Sproul wrote: The minimum and proportionate argument really really fecks me off, if someone breaks into my home, where my (common law(hehe this narks her)) wife and kids sleep they're fair game IMO and I shouldn't have to worry for one second about litigation caused by my actions, they chose to enter my home.

I know this is a thread hijack but make sure you have a will. She has no rights if you are to die.

If there was a law such as in some states in the US whereby as soon as an intruder enters your property then they are fair game for any level of force then yes, we would defend ourselves.

BUT, as this use of force shouldn't go hand in hand with any relaxation of the gun laws meaning that there wouldn't be any significant increase in gun numbers, and these guns wouldn't likely be in the possession of those affected by the riots, I don't see that there would have been much good.

For this to work you would need a huge mindshift of UK society.

I think you're right, christel - It's the British mind-set that is the number 1 problem. In no other free-country are firearms held in such evil-regards as they are in ours.

US: guns are a way of life. There's a gun aisle in a lot of stores, you can buy them from pawn shops, police are armed and self defence is a right - even if you're not a gun-person you're very aware that guns are out there, but they haven't crashed society as we know it either.

A lot of States have Catle Law - if someone, unlawfully forces, or enters, your property you can, legally, use leathal force

Switzerland: Everyone's in the Army, or the reserves. Boys and Girls of 16 ride to training on push-bikes with SiG assault-rifles slung on their sholders, and no one bats an eyelid

Luxembourg: You can legally buy a machine-gun for target shooting purposes.

Self defence is a crime in the UK - for example, we are not even allowed to carry pepper spray on our person for defence purposes.

Everyone knows at the back of thier mind that the law will probably side with the criminal and that has turned us all into sub-servant cowards.

Granted, a number of people have used leathal force in their homes, remember the home-invasions that ended in stabbings? But, as stated above, these were weapons of opportunity. If you have the time to unlock your gunsafe, and your ammo safe, and maybe find and put the bolt into your rifle then it wasn't a life threatening situation and regardless if the intruder was there to cause physical harm or not, YOU are in the wrong and will be hit by the law.

The concept on home-defence and firearms is very alien to the British. Other countries, you can buy ammunition designed to kill home invaders! Can you imagine that here? No. Why? Because the British cannot process the thought that we would actually be allowed to defend ourselves.

The British public do not want firearms, they do not understand firearms, the do not like firearms. Better to let the Police handle these things, right? :-P :roll:

Just a thought... what if your gun safe was in your bedroom(mine isn't, so this is just hypothetical), you heard noises downstairs and took out one of your guns because you feared for your life?

Given that most people don't keep kitchen knives in their bedrooms, that would make the gun the most opportunistic weapon available, wouldn't it?

Of course, I realise that under the current UK Law you'd still be stuffed.

Tower.75 wrote: Boys and Girls of 16 ride to training on push-bikes with SiG assault-rifles slung on their sholders, and no one bats an eyelid

I think the gun situation is relatively new (last 50 years?) as my Grandad used to take a .410 with him to work (in his bag on a cycle), incase he spotted rabbits etc. on the way.

judders wrote:Just a thought... what if your gun safe was in your bedroom(mine isn't, so this is just hypothetical), you heard noises downstairs and took out one of your guns because you feared for your life?

Given that most people don't keep kitchen knives in their bedrooms, that would make the gun the most opportunistic weapon available, wouldn't it?

Of course, I realise that under the current UK Law you'd still be stuffed.

You'd probably still be stuffed as you say :roll:

Hear burglar(s) downstairs, phone police (or preferably partner phones)
Take gun from safe and load
Go to top of stairs and issue challenge ('Get out of the house now!')
If they leave, great - unload gun and put it back in the safe when the police arrive, if questioned it never left the safe :-P
If they don't leave issue 2nd, 3rd, 4th challenge until they leave
If they decide they want to play issue challenge 'I have a gun leave or i'll use it' (if theres time)
If they leave at this point i reckon you'll have to tell the police you had the gun out of the safe in case they catch the crim and they make accusations
If they continue to advance towards you, IMO you're clear to shoot (make sure you hit them in the front! :? )

I'd expect to lose my certificates (even though i would feel it unjust if i wasn't convicted), but the CPS/Police would have to be seen to 'do something' :cool2:

Nowt to argue with really, we are a nation of cowards and blame shifters who love to abidcate responsibility for everytthing to someone else.

The point about rioters is not relevant, those disposed to riot will not applyn for a permit, and rioters HAD guns...as will any baddie so inclined to do so. The current stupidity of reasonable forfce is just crud, how do you KNOW that someone with a knife and ski mask will NOT kuill you! Bottom line, if you could LEGALLY should an intruder with no come back do you think burglaries would increase, no way! The problem as stated is that we are too woosie to take care of business at the time it is most needed..

The British public do not want firearms, they do not understand firearms, the do not like firearms. Better to let the Police handle these things, right?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That is because trhey have been brainwashed by bent journalists who love a good bit of scaremongering to keep the plebs in their place, and politicians who just happen to have armed guards in many cases! DRemember that dialling 999 takes seconds waiting for someone to answer the phone or arrive (if they do) can (and probably will) take the rest of your life!