Is Below the Manuals Starting Powder Weight Normal

[CopperSkink]

Greetings all,
I've recently been loading .223 55gr (Hornady SP) with ADI AR2206H and the ADI Manual says to use 25.0gr (starter) -> 26.0gr. I am finding I get best results with a 24.8->24.9gr load. Is this normal or does it just comes down to the rifle ?

Also the ADI Web site says AR2206H is equivalent (or very close) to H4895 and Hodgdon says the exact same starter and max loads. The Hodgdon site also says to use a 2.200 COL, but I'm using a 2.210 (easier for press to manage [Lee], it struggles with 2.200 with that bullet)

I'm sure I read somewhere that Hodgdon is supplied by ADI ?
I have not done a Ladder Test on this range of loads.

Thanks

[DaveT]

I have found that , typically , I need to be around the top-end of the published load ranges to get decent velocity & accuracy ..... accuracy always 'trumps' speed!

BE VERY CAREFUL of reduced loads as it is apparently possible to get a DETONATION / EXPLOSION rather than a controlled burn of the powder (especially with slower powder types) and this can be dangerous due to sudden over-pressures generated.

I would guess that your velocity at less than book minimum charge will be very slow even if accuracy is good and that you will find a 'loopy' trajectory at longer range.

I would advise staying above minimum loads for the reason stated above ....but don't feel that you have to chase the MAX either! If you are shooting at short ranges then go with accurate but moderate loads ...easier on gun & shoulder and pocket!

[CopperSkink]

Interesting,
Perhaps I will start from the beginning with that load and setup again (It was winter when I tested it last - that may have a slight affect).
I noticed that by the time I was getting to 25.8 - I started to see pressure signs on the primers, although very slight and I was probably being way too causious (but then with reloading you MUST be causious).
It was also my first attempts at reloading.
I'll also try different combinations of brass / primers etc. (starting from manual start loads of course on every new setup)
Does how many times brass has been fired have much of a affect, or at the sorter distances it doesn't really matter (within reason of course) ?

Unfortunately the only range I have access to (or really know of) is 100m or 200m.

Thanks for the advice

[Sandgroper]

ADI makes Hodgdon powders so for intents and purposes 2206H is H4895 - but check with ADI and/or Hodgdon.

From the Hodgdon website http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/H4895%20Redu ... 0Loads.pdf

Hodgdon Powder Company developed the following reduced loads for use on deer and similarly sized game animals. The bullets chosen were originally designed for single shot pistols and their lower velocities. These rifle loads have been developed to closely approximate those pistol velocities, resulting in similar performance on game animals. Thus, producing loads effective to 200 yards with minimal recoil.
H4895 powder was chosen because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly in reduced charges. For years H4895 has been the top choice of cast bullet shooters. For this type of shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed here. To create this type of target and plinking loads, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895: Refer to our latest reloading manual or the Reloading Data Center found on this website; take the maximum H4895 charge listed for any given cartridge and multiply it by 60%. The shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 f/s load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works ONLY where H4895 is listed. DO NOT use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.
Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best accuracy. However, DO NOT reduce by more than an additional 10%.

I have used H4895 in this manner for my 7.62 NATO Ishapore. From what Hodgdon says you should be OK - after you have checked with ADI or Hodgdon themselves!

[DaveT]

Very wise to be cautious .... too many chase max loads for the sake of it!

You will find that 'OK' Winter loads may show pressure signs in Summer temperatures...especially if you live somewhere that has extreme temp ranges where you will probably need to have two load setups to allow for this.

Brass will increase in capacity after first firing and can marginally increase further for a couple of firings after that.... assumes that you are neck-sizing after firing rather than Full length sizing each time.

I have never used your chosen calibre and powder but be sure that you have all the trim-to-length dimensions set right and have a reasonable neck tension (if your dies allow you to control this factor) and I would also advise that you invest in a Hornady COL measuring tool to check what maximum cartridge length you can fire in your specific chamber.... that will potentially enable you to experiment with longer than standard COLs and resultant potential for reduced pressures / increased accuracy.... read up on this very carefully first to avoid jamming the bullet into the rifling and having the opposite effect!

[CopperSkink]

@Sandgroper
Thanks for the info - good to know
Doing the calculations - thats a REALLY weak load at 15.6gr of H4895 for a 26.0gr Maximum load.
Perhaps at some stage I'll talk to Hodgdon or ADI about it if I seem to be getting below the minimums
Thanks

[CopperSkink]

@DaveT
You only need to be wrong once for it all to go wrong.
Something I've always wonderd about - Does the season you load the ammo in effect the outcome in respect to the firing season.
For example - If you load the case in summer and shoot the case in summer, how different is it from loading the case in winter and shooting it in summer. is the pressure related to when it is shot or loaded or as I'm guessing it a combination of both.
I am also assuming that once the bullet goes into the case its an airtight seal even with no crimping ?

PS I had a friend at the range the other day who had reloaded his cases and must of put a case that was a slightly smaller caliber/size (can't remember what it was or ment to be) into the mix and the outcome was a cracked case ONLY - he was very lucky.

One thing I always do after reloading a batch is weigh them all individually as they go into the final box - this has shown up once that I didn't load powder into 1 round - good catch. might of worked for the guy at the range aswell depending on how different the cases were.

[ovenpaa]

The bullet to case fit will not hold up long term against the ingress of moisture so keep them somewhere cool and dry. We do make a note of the weather on the day we build ammunition but I have never seen any real impact on this, where things vary are warm days and cool days, you point of impact at distance on a hot day can rise significantly as velocities increase and I make a point of keeping my loaded ammunition under cover at the firing point to make sure it does not get overly warm.

You can lacquer primer and bullet joints if you wish however it is an extreme practice and certainly not something I have tried.

Weighing finished rounds is a good exercise and it is worth boxing them in order so they can be shot in order, such as heaviest first. I batch my ammunition by perceived changes in neck tension with lightest first, I do this by feel as I seat the bullet.

[Shere Khan]

Hello, CopperSkink. When I began loading for my .40-70 str. (2 1/2"), Axtel Sharps, The suggested load of H4895 was (don't have notes with me) around 3 to 5grs. higher than what I found to be the most accurate. The start loads actually opened the groups. If I had started there..I probably would have given up on this powder. Best of luck!

[CopperSkink]

@ovenpaa
Yep - I think the lacquer is going a bit far, especially for my shooting skiils

The ordering by bullet weight probably only makes sense if you weighed everything to start with (eg. brass, bullets, primers and powder), at the moment I really only weigh the powder - I'm not shooting massive distances and I'm just not that a consistant a shot. But that is a great idea for the real pros like you guys.
I had never thought of the neck tension thing, but you know it actually makes sense - and I know what you mean that you can feel the tension when seating the bullet.

@Shere Khan
Thanks, I'm definately leaning towoard starting again with the load setup - now that its coming into summer (or is ment to be) down here in NZ