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A bill to criminalise reloaders if they have more components than their ammunition allocation


https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3216? ... Wnl39KN-s0

John Gunn wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:00 am A bill to criminalise reloaders if they have more components than their ammunition allocation

Is it not a bill to criminalise an individual who intends to manufacture ammunition beyond what they may legally posses? Possession of the components alone does not meet the criteria.

As written that Bill makes no sense!?

Possessing component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture

In the Firearms Act 1968, after section 3 insert—

“3A Possessing component parts of ammunition with intent to manufacture
(1)
A person commits an offence if—

(a) the person has in their possession any component parts of ammunition (see subsection (2) ),

(b) the person intends to manufacture ammunition to which section 1 applies using those parts, and

(c) were the person to do so—

(i) possession of the ammunition by the person would constitute an offence under section 1, or

(ii) the manufacture or possession of the ammunition by the person would constitute an offence under section 3. 

(2) For the purposes of this section the component parts of ammunition are—

(a) bullet;
(b) cartridge case;
(c) primer;
(d) propellant.

(3) A person who commits an offence under this section is liable—

(a) on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 5 years or a fine (or both);

(b) on summary conviction in England and Wales, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding the general limit in a magistrates’ court or a fine (or both);

(c) on summary conviction in Scotland, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum (or both).”

3 Extent, commencement and short title
(1) An amendment made by this Act has the same extent as the provision amended.

(2) Subject to that, this Act extends to England and Wales and Scotland.

(3) Sections 1 and 2 come into force on such day or days as the Secretary of State may by regulations made by statutory instrument appoint.

(4) Regulations under subsection (3) may—

(a) make transitional, transitory or saving provision;

(b) make different provision for different purposes.

(5) This section comes into force on the day on which this Act is passed.

(6) This Act may be cited as the Firearms Act 2023.

Does this apply to someone who doesn't have a FAC ????
Because otherwise we are all in the sheeit, because we all own all of those parts with intent to manufacture.

Sounds like bollox to me........hasn't this already been discussed a while back? I seem to remember the consensus was that the intent bit meant intent to make more than your entitlement, for whatever reason.
As it is, you now have to show an FAC to buy powder and primers.
What are they going to do, come round periodically, and count/weigh all your stuff and compare it with your ammo allowance, taking into account multiple calibres and different loads?
I don't think so.....
Pete

Graham M wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 5:25 pm Does this apply to someone who doesn't have a FAC ????
Because otherwise we are all in the sheeit, because we all own all of those parts with intent to manufacture.

were the person to do so—

(i) possession of the ammunition by the person would constitute an offence under section 1, or

(ii) the manufacture or possession of the ammunition by the person would constitute an offence under setion 3


so if you have an FAC and entitlement for that cartridge, then you aren't in breach of i

I may be reading this wrong, but where in the text are the exemptions for certificate holders?

It is no where near prescriptive enough for me, and just as many of us feared when this was first announced, is entirely open to officious FEOs seeing a stack of cases/primers/bullets/powder tubs that could be used to make way more ammunition than the cert holder has authority for being next to their reloading equipment being taken as 'intent' to make more ammo that they're permitted at any one time

Pete wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 7:04 pm Sounds like bollox to me........hasn't this already been discussed a while back? I seem to remember the consensus was that the intent bit meant intent to make more than your entitlement, for whatever reason.
As it is, you now have to show an FAC to buy powder and primers.
What are they going to do, come round periodically, and count/weigh all your stuff and compare it with your ammo allowance, taking into account multiple calibres and different loads?
I don't think so.....
Pete

I have a friend that was made to bring every piece of ammunition they owned into one room during their renewal interview and the FEO demanded they tell them exactly how many rounds of each calibre there was. He told the FEO to count if he wanted and left it at that. Considering there was close to 18,000 rounds he backed down and just ticked the boxes and left. I've heard of the same FEO asking the same of other shooters but they actually complied....

Well if there was any "official" weight to this, the FEO shouldn't have backed down...... 18000 rounds is obviously RF, not an unusual quantity for a keen competitive smallbore target shooter, I'd say, and a calibre which very few stalwarts would bother to reload.
I thought the OP was about a private members bill proposing reloading components, powder, primers etc. to be controlled in some way.

Pete

Blackstuff wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:48 am I may be reading this wrong, but where in the text are the exemptions for certificate holders?

Right here:

(c) were the person to do so—

(i) possession of the ammunition by the person would constitute an offence under section 1, or...

Clearly it would be an offence if either
You do not hold authority to possess the cartridge concerned, or: you intend to manufacture in excess of you allowed quantity.

rox wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 4:20 pm

Blackstuff wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:48 am I may be reading this wrong, but where in the text are the exemptions for certificate holders?

Right here:
: you intend to manufacture in excess of you allowed quantity.

That seems a bit vague.. Say I can hold 300 .357 rounds. I have a thousand lead bullets, 500 cases, 2,000 primers and two tubs of powder.
How can anyone say what my intention is?