Storing ammunition in club without FAC

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moriraaca
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Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#1 Post by moriraaca »

Hello all, I've stumbled upon yet another topic with contradictory guidance, and I'd like to learn about other people's experiences.

One of the most annoying part of not having FAC is that if I go to Bisley, hire a rifle and buy X rounds, if I won't be able to go through all of them I need to dispose of them at the armoury. I had to do this already twice and it hurts, as it's literally throwing money away :-(

I was chatting with NRA armourer on Bisley, and he told me that in theory as an NRA member I could rent an ammo storage box at the armoury, and I could keep unspent rounds there. This makes sense to me - those rounds are never leaving Bisley Camp, and you could even look at them as not really "mine", but "NRA-owned" rounds which I've already pre-paid for, and will get them during my next visit. Unfortunately, there are currently no free ammo boxes at the armoury (from what I was told this is an exception, not a rule), so I can't do that in practice.

I've recently joined another club which has a club house on Bisley Camp, and rents lockers to club members. I've figured this is a great option for me, I could rent one of them and store my ammunition there. To my surprise however, the club member I was emailing with told me it's not possible, as it'd be illegal to do.

Confused, I've asked about this again the NRA armourer during my next Bisley visit, to make sure I've understood him correctly the first time. He said it's perfectly legal to keep the unspent ammunition in NRA Armoury - subject to storage space availability. He said many people in my situation (no FAC) are (or were) using this option, as it's obviously way more convenient. He also said that this is true not just for the NRA Armoury, but for every club that offers lockers that can be rented to club members, as long as those lockers are located within the Bisley Camp area. Finally he said that he's aware of many people without FAC doing just that - storing unspent ammunition in club storage lockers. He did not name any specific clubs/members, so perhaps it's a bit anecdotal, but he seemed sure about that.

I've contacted the other club again, describing what I've learned from the armourer. They were very surprised, and told me it's not a specific club rule, but is their understanding of the firearms legislation. They've cited this bullet point from NRA pages, which indeed confirms their interpretation:
Now I'm very confused. On one hand there's this NRA paragraph, and what my club is saying. On the other hand there's what the amourer is saying, and while he's probably not the final authority on the subject, I'd imagine he'd be well aware of rules in this area, as it's his day job.

Does anyone has experiences that confirm one or the other version?
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Blackstuff
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#2 Post by Blackstuff »

Are you not shooting there with a club? Can you not just get another member with an FAC to have it added to their certificate, they take it home and bring it to the next shoot for you?
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#3 Post by PeterN »

We have a young lad who is a full member of our smallbore club but has not got an FAC. He shoots using club rifles and buys his ammunition from the club and the purchase is entered in the ammunition book. Any he doesn’t use is returned to a shelf in the armoury for him to collect next time he shoots. This also happens with probationary members. All left over ammunition from a session is kept in the armoury until next time. No ammunition leaves the club unless the person has an FAC.
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Les
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#4 Post by Les »

Our club operates on the same principal as Peter's. If you don't have an FAC, you are not allowed to possess ammunition outside of the club. Any unused ammunition is labelled, ready for the person's next visit.
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#5 Post by walesdave »

Just a guess, but is the difference between a 'locker' that you have complete control over and an armoury where the armourer is in control of the ammunition the reason for the different rules?
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#6 Post by MistAgain »

PeterN wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 11:18 am We have a young lad who is a full member of our smallbore club but has not got an FAC. He shoots using club rifles and buys his ammunition from the club and the purchase is entered in the ammunition book. Any he doesn’t use is returned to a shelf in the armoury for him to collect next time he shoots. This also happens with probationary members. All left over ammunition from a session is kept in the armoury until next time. No ammunition leaves the club unless the person has an FAC.
Regards
Peter.
This is exactly how it used to be done at Aintree .

But it seems that Firerms were not happy with it .
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dromia
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#7 Post by dromia »

If you have no FAC then you have no authority to acquire, purchase or possess ammunition.

How ever as member of a HO approved club then you can use club ammunition in pursuit of club activities.

Your ammunition is drawn from the club armoury and any unfired ammunition is returned to the club armoury with your name on it for future use.

This ensures that you only have access to the ammunition for club use and have no other access to it as you are not allowed to possess ammunition without the particular permissions on your certificate.

So having ammunition in your own personal locker would be against the law as you would then be in possession of ammunition you have no authority to have and you could access the ammunition unbeknownst to anyone else and use it for whatever purpose.

I think this is quiet clear and should not lead to confusion.

You seem to have a knack of getting poor advice or not having it explained properly to you, either way if I was you I would try and find a club that can give you proper advice and train you properly as a tyro/probationer shooter, looks like from all the issues you are raising that the current clubs you belong to are not providing acceptable training and are failing in their duty as HO approved clubs. Therefore they are not worth your membership fee as these are the sort of questions we tend to get from people who have not yet joined a club.

Unless of course you just trying to find contradictions for the sake of it, or some other reason?
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#8 Post by Mattnall »

Dromia has it right here.
You need to find a club that will teach you all the things you need to know.
A very helpful publication is the Guidance on Firearms Licensing Law (LINK) and also the Firearms Law Handbook (LINK). Either will help you.

Both the on-camp club and the NRA Armoury have it correct; you can leave the ammo in the NRA store and you cannot leave it in the your clubhouse locker. The on-camp club could take the ammo from you and store it in the club's store (maybe in the clubhouse or wherever the club legally stores its ammo) but you cannot keep it yourself.
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moriraaca
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#9 Post by moriraaca »

Thanks, I understand it now.
Blackstuff wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:20 am Are you not shooting there with a club? Can you not just get another member with an FAC to have it added to their certificate, they take it home and bring it to the next shoot for you?
Until recently I was only a member of NRA, so most shooting I've done was going to Bisely, hiring a rifle and range, buying some ammo, and shooting on my own. NRA has a "Shooting club" too, and I was attending it (as long as the meetings weren't cancelled), but even then you are still responsible for your ammunition yourself, you still buy it at armoury and you need to dispose of it there.
dromia wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:58 pm You seem to have a knack of getting poor advice or not having it explained properly to you, either way if I was you I would try and find a club that can give you proper advice and train you properly as a tyro/probationer shooter, looks like from all the issues you are raising that the current clubs you belong to are not providing acceptable training and are failing in their duty as HO approved clubs. Therefore they are not worth your membership fee as these are the sort of questions we tend to get from people who have not yet joined a club.
So the training I've got was from NRA, I did all of their probationary courses. I thought this is the best way to get into shooting, perhaps it would be better to join a more typical club. Well, I now joined more clubs as a probationary member so perhaps that will help.
dromia wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 1:58 pm Unless of course you just trying to find contradictions for the sake of it, or some other reason?
I can promise you I'm not trying to do that. In this particular case the biggest confusion was related to what's on NRA website "(...) Unless the ammunition sold is entered on your firearms certificate, it must be used on the day of purchase and must not be removed from Bisley. (...)" vs what armourer told me that the purchased ammunition can be stored in the armoury and wait for me for the next time, so by definition it won't be "used on the day of purchase". With your help I understand this now, but am I really crazy to get confused by this?
moriraaca
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Re: Storing ammunition in club without FAC

#10 Post by moriraaca »

Mattnall wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 2:12 pm A very helpful publication is the Guidance on Firearms Licensing Law (LINK) and also the Firearms Law Handbook (LINK). Either will help you.
Oh I forgot to thank you for this link as well - that's quite a long read but I'll definitely give it a go, it seems very interesting.
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