The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

lapua338 wrote:

It's called Historic Enfield class for a reason

That's all the explanation you need. The course of fire is designed for the Enfield. It's maintaining the ethos of the class. The competition would fall into disrepute if they accommodated all and sundry. As soon as you do someone a kindness or a favour (with 'Can I shoot this?' or 'Can I shoot that?') then the Historic Enfield class ceases to be.

If you feel that strongly why not start a class for Long Lee's or K31's? I have a K31 and it's a great rifle, however, I wouldn't demand to shoot in a competition for Historic Enfield's.

It would be nice if there was a 5-shot WW1/WW2 Historic class, where Mosin's, G98/K98k, P14/P17, M1903's etc.,etc could compete together.

I'm hoping to persuade the 3 other club members with Lee-Enfields in my club to consider CSR with a view to a team to enter an event at some point, but only two of them so far are showing any interest.
And on the OP's point of view which I can understand, as one other club member is very interested (thus making 4) but he has a P17 not a Lee-Enfield.

I have a simple solution, ban all old service rifles from CSR matches, they only hold up the matches with their antiquated actions.

kennyc wrote:
as a K31 shooter I have a problem with that statement, insomuch as I have never asked for an extension to the time allowed for reloading, in my opinion the vast majority of people have plenty of time for a reload in the average comp, I do remenber the discussions some years ago and a lot of the comments were along the lines of "this is a Lee Enfield comp buy one or don't compete " !

This is the problem. It is a Lee Enfield SR shoot that was designed and intended as such from many years ago. So why does everyone with a different make of service rifle think it is unfair that they are excluded? The rules state any rifle with a magazine capacity of 10 rounds can enter. Why does that seem so hard to grasp?

There were many protesters a few years ago and I think even the HBSA waded in, the NRA bowed to their massed voices and allowed a Foreign SR class. The timings were changed to accommodate the natural pause after 5 rounds. In the end I think 3 took up the banner making it the not only not worth it but a big PITA to boot. If only half of the complainants turned up then it would have been the biggest class but the 'foreigners' didn't put their money where their mouths had gone.

There are 2 choices as far as I see it: enter as irons and if enough enter the NRA will add the class (money from entries will ultimately speak loudest); or book the range(s) and start your own league only for foreign service rifles.
The former can be done in under a fortnight as the first CSR match is at the beginning of October besides if you are only shooting against your own previous score then it won't matter what class you are in.
The latter will require some effort and perhaps the two or three who turn up will appreciate it enough to regularly attend and bring their mates to the next one. This is how the CSR league started, it was booked and run by one club initially until the NRA took over the burden of range booking and entries.

I think as long as there is space in the competition it should be open to other rifles-shouldn't be that hard just to segregate them in scoring if people are all that worried about it but it shouldn't require changes to the course of fire.

When i shot the armistice day match it was 95% Enfields and a few other like me with other ww1 rifles (i had a P14, there was a Mosin, a Lebel and some Mauser action) and they just lumped the non lee enfields in as "4 corners" category which seemed to work just fine as everyone is still using the same course of fire.

Airbrush wrote:I have a simple solution, ban all old service rifles from CSR matches, they only hold up the matches with their antiquated actions.

Indeed - they are nothing but trouble.
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Mattnall wrote:

kennyc wrote:
as a K31 shooter I have a problem with that statement, insomuch as I have never asked for an extension to the time allowed for reloading, in my opinion the vast majority of people have plenty of time for a reload in the average comp, I do remenber the discussions some years ago and a lot of the comments were along the lines of "this is a Lee Enfield comp buy one or don't compete " !

This is the problem. It is a Lee Enfield SR shoot that was designed and intended as such from many years ago. So why does everyone with a different make of service rifle think it is unfair that they are excluded? The rules state any rifle with a magazine capacity of 10 rounds can enter. Why does that seem so hard to grasp?

There were many protesters a few years ago and I think even the HBSA waded in, the NRA bowed to their massed voices and allowed a Foreign SR class. The timings were changed to accommodate the natural pause after 5 rounds. In the end I think 3 took up the banner making it the not only not worth it but a big PITA to boot. If only half of the complainants turned up then it would have been the biggest class but the 'foreigners' didn't put their money where their mouths had gone.

There are 2 choices as far as I see it: enter as irons and if enough enter the NRA will add the class (money from entries will ultimately speak loudest); or book the range(s) and start your own league only for foreign service rifles.
The former can be done in under a fortnight as the first CSR match is at the beginning of October besides if you are only shooting against your own previous score then it won't matter what class you are in.
The latter will require some effort and perhaps the two or three who turn up will appreciate it enough to regularly attend and bring their mates to the next one. This is how the CSR league started, it was booked and run by one club initially until the NRA took over the burden of range booking and entries.

That is not the rule the rules state only Lee-Enfield SMLE's, No.4's and No.5's may enter. Long-Lee's, Lee Metfords, Schmidt-Rubin 1889's, Vetterli's etc all have magazine capacities of 10 or more but are not allowed in. Even Lebel's can hold 10 if you want them too. Also it's not hard to grasp what the rules are I am just saying it's a stupid rule. Can you explain what cost there is to the Lee-Enfield shooters if you allow other rifles in with no other changes to the rules? Exactly like how the one match that does allow foreign service rifle, the any irons division and the falling plates are done. I have never heard anyone suggesting additional time for non-Lee's.

You also have to allow a bit of time to let the word spread that non-Lee's are now catered for you can't expect to do it once and have hundreds of people enter immediately. It will take time for the "Lee-Enfield or go home" image CSR currently has to wear off.

This is the second time someone has said "you should only be competing against your own score" however that is an argument in favour of letting the foreign service rifles in not against it. If you are only competing against your own score why does it matter if omeone with a Mosin is beating you? Ultimately I already do organise competitions without bias to one particular rifle. It just seems a shame I can't recommend my club members the CSR competitions because there is an insistence on using one particular rifle with no logical basis other than some people get upset but won't give a proper reason why.

So the simple solution would be to add a "foreign class" as is done with the Historic CSR events.

And the diary shows an Historic CSR going ahead on the 3rd of October - 4 classes.
Classic (SMLEs)
Veteran (No 4s/No 5s)
Veteran Optic (No 4T)
All Comers Iron (Foreign SR)

Perhaps if there is enough feeling and folk wanting it then petition the right person at the NRA.
AFAIK just about all the CSR events are fully booked in advance.
Range space at Bisley has been near maximum for some time - maybe that has changed in recent months.

Airbrush wrote:I have a simple solution, ban all old service rifles from CSR matches, they only hold up the matches with their antiquated actions.

Better still, ban all the wannabe Rambo's with their pretend plastic fantastics.......

mag41uk wrote:So the simple solution would be to add a "foreign class" as is done with the Historic CSR events.

And the diary shows an Historic CSR going ahead on the 3rd of October - 4 classes.
Classic (SMLEs)
Veteran (No 4s/No 5s)
Veteran Optic (No 4T)
All Comers Iron (Foreign SR)

Perhaps if there is enough feeling and folk wanting it then petition the right person at the NRA.
AFAIK just about all the CSR events are fully booked in advance.
Range space at Bisley has been near maximum for some time - maybe that has changed in recent months.

I think that would be a good compromise if people are really against combining all historic rifles in one class like in the falling plates. I'm looking forwards to the Historic SR match it's just a shame that there is only one a year.

GeeRam wrote:

Airbrush wrote:I have a simple solution, ban all old service rifles from CSR matches, they only hold up the matches with their antiquated actions.

Better still, ban all the wannabe Rambo's with their pretend plastic fantastics.......

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