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Let us assume that a chap wants to build up a bit of a collection of military rifles of roughly the WW1 era and was trying to work out what order to go about acquiring them in, where would you personally go?

I’m not thinking of anything too madcap or rare, good shooting examples will be the call of the day and probably shot with my latest handloading obsession, cast bullets.

I was thinking of starting with a Persian Contract Mauser in 8x57 in deference to my roots, ideally one of the ceremonial rifles that were left in the white but am at a bit of a loss as to where to go from there.

A Lee Enfield of some description, a Schmidt-Rubin, a Springfield, etc…

What would you do?

As a life long collector, once you have some definition to your collecting frame and standard then buy whatever comes up. Availability of good quality examples of firearms of this period is getting harder and harder to acquire and I learned early on in my collecting career if you see something suitable then buy it as the opportunities rarely repeat. These rifles are no longer available "off the shelf" so buying what there is available at any given point in time is far more rewarding than just waiting for that "perfect" example of a particular gun. Also by building a collection you will have collateral to put towards that "perfect and desired example" of that model you seek.

I may not be able to have everything but sure as hell I'm going to try was my collecting philosophy.

Indeed, condition is all but with our licensing system I imagine it would be easier on plod to know what one wants before hand.

Does one establish a collection at the outset or as one goes a long in terms of licensing?

I was thinking of starting with a Persian Contract Mauser in 8x57 in deference to my roots

+1, they are slimply gorgeous .
Mausers are probably the most elegants of all Mil-Surp rifles to start with. Then, the Persian crest with the Pahlavi crown, the bursting sun & the lion is the sexiest symbol ever put on a receiver
The rifle quality of those Czechoslovakian rifle was excellent and, as you said, a lot of those available were ex ceremonial rifles, meaning they can be found in good condition as a decent price .

Then I'd go for a Mosin Nagant who are very "historical" and enable you to shoot one of the cheapest Mil-surp ammo on the market if you dont re-load.

My Persian Vz 98/29 is in France, but you are more than welcome to try my Finish Mosin at the next full bore day if/when they'll organise one

Certification departments vary extremely in how the legislation is interpreted and applied, as regards getting slots on your FAC for collecting you will be required to demonstrate you are a genuine collector, this can be member of a learned body, published research, areas of study etc. to find out what your Certification department will require you will need to ask them.

However a small but representative collection can still be built up using target shooting reasoned slots, when you run out of these then having established the kernel of a collection it will help if you then seek further slots with collection as a reason.

I had around fifty target and live quarry slots on my FAC before I sought a further fifty for collecting purposes, my reason presented to the certification department would have sufficed as a PhD proposal.

There's the obvious choices, such as the SMLE, Gewehr88 and Mosin Nagant, but it's worthwhile keeping your eye open for less common rifles. Are you looking to fulfill a particular nation or did you already have some firearms in mind?

As you've already stated that you are using handloads with cast bullets, you'll want to think about finding cases for these rifles. Privi Partisan make brass for 8mm Mauser and 303brit but you might struggle with the less popular milsurp brass. Bertram make cases in obsolete calibres but these can be quite expensive if you intend to buy a reasonable quantity.

froggy wrote:I was thinking of starting with a Persian Contract Mauser in 8x57 in deference to my roots

+1, they are slimply gorgeous .
Mausers are probably the most elegants of all Mil-Surp rifles to start with. Then, the Persian crest with the Pahlavi crown, the bursting sun & the lion is the sexiest symbol ever put on a receiver
The rifle quality of those Czechoslovakian rifle was excellent and, as you said, a lot of those available were ex ceremonial rifles, meaning they can be found in good condition as a decent price .

Then I'd go for a Mosin Nagant who are very "historical" and enable you to shoot one of the cheapest Mil-surp ammo on the market if you dont re-load.

My Persian Vz 98/29 is in France, but you are more than welcome to try my Finish Mosin at the next full bore day if/when they'll organise one

Indeed Monsieur, they were in fact colloquially known as "Bern-Oh" ( BRNO ) rather than Mauser in Iran due to the link and the fact that BRNO had an arms factory producing them in Iran under Czech supervision. It is apparently better to get hold of one of the older Czech manufactured ones but from what my uncles tell me the Iranian made ones were just as good.

They were iconic in Iranian culture in the 20th C, even down there being a drinking song about them!

"Mast'am, Mast'am, Brno'am be dastam" is the main refrain which loosely translates to "I'm drunk, I'm drunk and I have my Brno in my hand"... Less politically correct times perhaps?

I would love to try your Mosin, I hunted brown bear with a borrowed one in Russia, next shoot is on the board at the club.

It would be great if you could make it.

dromia wrote:Certification departments vary extremely in how the legislation is interpreted and applied, as regards getting slots on your FAC for collecting you will be required to demonstrate you are a genuine collector, this can be member of a learned body, published research, areas of study etc. to find out what your Certification department will require you will need to ask them.

However a small but representative collection can still be built up using target shooting reasoned slots, when you run out of these then having established the kernel of a collection it will help if you then seek further slots with collection as a reason.

I had around fifty target and live quarry slots on my FAC before I sought a further fifty for collecting purposes, my reason presented to the certification department would have sufficed as a PhD proposal.

The latter appraoch is the one I was planning on taking. It seems the line of least resistance.

WelshShooter wrote:There's the obvious choices, such as the SMLE, Gewehr88 and Mosin Nagant, but it's worthwhile keeping your eye open for less common rifles. Are you looking to fulfill a particular nation or did you already have some firearms in mind?

As you've already stated that you are using handloads with cast bullets, you'll want to think about finding cases for these rifles. Privi Partisan make brass for 8mm Mauser and 303brit but you might struggle with the less popular milsurp brass. Bertram make cases in obsolete calibres but these can be quite expensive if you intend to buy a reasonable quantity.

Not a nation as such, not really got much of a plan at the moment apart from having come to the realisation that I like bolt action repeaters more than other guns.

My main game is hunting and the rifles I hunt (with one or two exceptions) with are all derivatives in one way or another of the military rifles, mainly the Mauser.

I would like to have an example of each of the main arm of nations around the time of WW1 as they fit that brief and are good fun to shoot.

I am happy to shoot jacketed or cast, fiddle with brass forming, etc. It's a hobby after all...

a drinking song about them (Brno mauser)..., hunted brown bear with one (Mosin) in Russia,
You are my new non-PC hero Amir - you well deserve a pop on my M39