This section is for reloading and ammunition only, all loads found in here are used strictly at your own risk, if in doubt ask again.
All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should treated as suspect and not used.
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All handloading data posted on Full-Bore UK from 23/2/2021 must reference the published pressure tested data it was sourced from, posts without such verification will be removed.
Any existing data without such a reference should be treated as suspect and not used.
Use reloading information posted here at your own risk. This forum (http://www.full-bore.co.uk) is not responsible for any property damage or personal injury as a consequence of using reloading data posted here, the information is individual members findings and observations only. Always verify the load data and be absolutely sure your firearm can handle the load, especially older ones. If in doubt start low and work your way up.
I've decided to bite the bullet, maybe literally, and start reloading, in order to feed my .223 VZ58 MARS rifle the type of ammo that's going to give me the best from it. Later down the lines i'll be reloading .308 and perhaps 9mm but for now its only .223Rem.
The question is; does anyone currently use Lee 'Ultimate' dies? The reason for the question is that they claim you don't need to lube bottle-neck cases with them and I'm wondering if its true, and therefore is spending the extra money worth it.
I'm not loading for pin-point accuracy (IPSC sized targets at 0-300m) and I'm trying to make the process as quick and painless as possible.
And no, I don't want to spend £££'s more getting RCBS or Redding stuff before someone suggests it!
The ultimate die set comes with a full lentgh sizer you need to lube your cases when using this die.
It also comes with a collet die that neck sizes only you do not need lube when using this die. But the collet die NECK sizes only.
I don't like the Lee collet neck dies. But others seem to get on with them OK.
I use their Ultimate 4 die sets, you do need to lube for full length sizing on bottle neck, the pistol calibre carbide dies don't need the cases lubed.
If you want to pop round and have a look at various presses, dies reloading kit etc. you're more than welcome, I'm in most of the time :)
PM sent with address and phone number as we've moved after last time you visited.
There's room for all Gods creatures, next to the mash and gravy :)
I went down the same route as you with my VZ (non Mars) but simply using the RGB FLD kit and the Lee hand press (gave a good work out!). I worked up loads with both Ramshot Xterminator and N140 across 55 - 69 weight bullets (PPU and Sierra). My understanding being that the FLD needs lubricating but the collet dies do not. I was however recommended to Full length resize in this application.
TBH I've now just gone back to using the Barnaul 62 grain factory in steel cases at under £30 per 100. I'm not the greatest shot but really couldn't see much change in accuracy over a long string. I've come to the solution that gun is capable of 2-3 MOA regardless. I have shot better when resting between and allowing cooling but opened up again as the rate increased.
However, I may restart reloading for the .223 now I picked up a bargain 700P at the Phoenix last month.
Thanks for the info gents! I would only be neck sizing as the ammo would only be used in one gun.
phaedra1106 wrote:I use their Ultimate 4 die sets, you do need to lube for full length sizing on bottle neck, the pistol calibre carbide dies don't need the cases lubed.
If you want to pop round and have a look at various presses, dies reloading kit etc. you're more than welcome, I'm in most of the time :)
PM sent with address and phone number as we've moved after last time you visited.
Hounded out of town again eh? I have actually been to your latest place, may well take you up on that
pigsy wrote:Blackstuff,
I went down the same route as you with my VZ (non Mars) but simply using the RGB FLD kit and the Lee hand press (gave a good work out!). I worked up loads with both Ramshot Xterminator and N140 across 55 - 69 weight bullets (PPU and Sierra). My understanding being that the FLD needs lubricating but the collet dies do not. I was however recommended to Full length resize in this application.
TBH I've now just gone back to using the Barnaul 62 grain factory in steel cases at under £30 per 100. I'm not the greatest shot but really couldn't see much change in accuracy over a long string. I've come to the solution that gun is capable of 2-3 MOA regardless. I have shot better when resting between and allowing cooling but opened up again as the rate increased.
However, I may restart reloading for the .223 now I picked up a bargain 700P at the Phoenix last month.
I'm just having supply problems, the only ammo I can get (for sensible money) is the Barnaul 55gr stuff which groups terribly at 100m, god knows what it would be like at 2-300! I used to be able to get the 75gr Hornady Match steel case ammo for fairly reasonable prices which the gun really liked but that seems to have all but dried up. I suppose its a side of shooting I should really have at least half an idea about anyway and its a good excuse to put more kit in the mancave!
For Rifle Calibres
Full length dies = Lube
Collet dies = No lube
For Pistol Calibres
Normal sizer = Lube
Carbide sizer = No lube
For a straight pull rifle you "might" have slight problems with neck sizing. I don't have a straight pull rifle so cannot comment, but I have heard that some people have feeding issues when neck sizing. Either do some reading up where others have the same rifle or find out by trial and error.
With regards to the Lee Ultimate Die set, they are good value for money. I use that exact same die set with my .308 and I can get ~ 0.5moa accuracy from my handloads (somehow ).
I wouldn't bother crimping your rifle brass though. You're effectively using "bolt action" rifles, such that the bolt stays in battery, so there's no point in crimping. You should get sufficient neck tension from neck sizing so you shouldn't get bullet setback.
With a gas operated rifle (and even with most rifle calibre lever-actions), you'll need to full length size the cases.
Chambers are usually sloppy and actions are stretchy.
Lube definitely needed, you will rip the base off a 223 case when lowering the press otherwise, leaving the rest stuck in the die.
GRSporth1 wrote:With a gas operated rifle (and even with most rifle calibre lever-actions), you'll need to full length size the cases.
Chambers are usually sloppy and actions are stretchy.
Lube definitely needed, you will rip the base off a 223 case when lowering the press otherwise, leaving the rest stuck in the die.
mag41uk wrote:I am intrigued to know what gas operated rifle in 223 he is using!
