The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 12:36 pm**

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-la ... e-36214302

Can they not buy replicas like these:
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/enfield-no ... duct,12538

I went to a arms fair/ open day last year at St George's Hall, Liverpool and there were people from an re-enactment group that had home made rifles... comprised of bits of pipe, plastic and wood..... they looked realistic enough. Some even had "L" shaped blocks of painted wood in holsters made to look like handguns.

It is very unlikely that any of these re-enactors are in possession of the actual rifle that their relative carried in the Great War ..... and its not as if they are going to be doing any live-firing..... so really, as long as the rifles look the part to the public, then whats the problem ?

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 1:10 pm**

I know Scott, we have worked together on a few projects over the last few years.
No one who takes themselves seriously in the living history world would ever wish to use a denix replica especially at a high profile event such as the Somme centenary. We would not be able to take them to France due to local laws.
Many re-enactors take pride in the level of authenticity in their kit and equipment for my great war equipment for example I had my B5 type boots made by the same company that made the originals, the fittings on my pattern 14 equipment are cast from the same moulds as the originals and are fitted to leather made by the same contractor that supplied the original stock.
My standing advice to members of my group is to apply for a FAC and acquire a live SMLE. I am not a fan of deactivated firearms, but they do have their uses for public displays and school presentations.
I have been invited by the people who own an area of the old battlefield to take part in the centenary activities in France and the current plan is to take live SMLE's and G98's registered on our European Firearm Passes.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 2:41 pm**

HH1 wrote:Can they not buy replicas like these:
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/enfield-no ... duct,12538

Funny....obviously have ZERO experience of both the topic & more importantly the build quality (or lack of it) of the Denix wall-hangers!
Having marched quite a few miles in full kit in different parts of Europe, in all weathers from -18 to 100% humidity, the Denix junk would be almost a one use & drop into the nearest bin proposition!

HH1 wrote:I went to a arms fair/ open day last year at St George's Hall, Liverpool and there were people from an re-enactment group that had home made rifles... comprised of bits of pipe, plastic and wood..... they looked realistic enough.

Compared to what?

HH1 wrote: Some even had "L" shaped blocks of painted wood in holsters made to look like handguns.

So did I when I was about 7...

HH1 wrote:It is very unlikely that any of these re-enactors are in possession of the actual rifle that their relative carried in the Great War ..... and its not as if they are going to be doing any live-firing..... so really, as long as the rifles look the part to the public, then whats the problem ?

Very FEW re-enactors portray a specific relative - so next to no-one WILL have the ACTUAL rifle that that particular relative carried: so zero validity of that argument (HOW would they be able to source the exact issued rifle even if they knew the serial umber, unless it was sold to their relative or "lost" & brought home by them?)
Live-firing, NO. Use with correct caliber full sized blanks, YES.
Looking the part to the public...FFS! Joe Public, well known arbiters of ALL known facts on all subjects: one war movie watched = instant expert.
THAT one reads like a quote from the anti's book "One-gun at a Time - Ban Them All - Reasonable positions to argue" next to the one that all black rifles are evil, no guns should be stored away from the gun club, why would anyone living in a urban area need a gun, etc.?

The very guns in question seem to strangely fall foul of this new EU ruling, yet they can be owned in France without paperwork as live firers!
(as can single shot .22 pistols, most 12-ga pump action shotguns irrespective of barrel length/magazine capacity/overall length, etc., i.e. guns that would be Section 5 here)

I'm with 450Martini = and have said for years that the easiest way (if possible*) is to have the rifle on a F.A.C. or S.G.C., with an E.F.P.

*BUT - not always possible given that a lot of WW2 designs e now Section 5 in the UK (yet freely owned in the rest of the EU, if only as a converted semi-auto model)

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 2:58 pm**

When did the laws change? I thought this was still being debated within the EU? Have I missed something?

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 3:07 pm**

450 Martini wrote:I know Scott, we have worked together on a few projects over the last few years.
No one who takes themselves seriously in the living history world would ever wish to use a denix replica

Well maybe that is the crux of the problem..... "re-enactment" = acting. It isn't real.

450 Martini wrote:I have been invited by the people who own an area of the old battlefield to take part in the centenary activities in France and the current plan is to take live SMLE's and G98's registered on our European Firearm Passes.

Excellent!!!! I would be all for that! REAL SMLE's and G98's being used to commemorate the Centenary, even if shooting blank rounds is an awesome tribute

Standing there with a butchered lump of metal and wood that once was a perfectly useable rifle is just rather sad

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 3:13 pm**

saddler wrote:
Very FEW re-enactors portray a specific relative - so next to no-one WILL have the ACTUAL rifle that that particular relative carried: so zero validity of that argument (HOW would they be able to source the exact issued rifle even if they knew the serial number, unless it was sold to their relative or "lost" & brought home by them?

Just reading that bit about the serial number reminds me I have a notebook from the Great War that was my Grandfathers......and on the inside of the front cover, written in pencil, is his rifles serial number!.
I wonder what the chances are that someone owns it and shoots it today?.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 3:30 pm**

saddler wrote:
HH1 wrote:Can they not buy replicas like these:
http://www.sofmilitary.co.uk/enfield-no ... duct,12538
Funny....obviously have ZERO experience of both the topic & more importantly the build quality (or lack of it) of the Denix wall-hangers! Hmmm, so what REALLY is the difference between any Deact and a non working replica? They are all nothing more than useless curios.

Having marched quite a few miles in full kit in different parts of Europe, in all weathers from -18 to 100% humidity, the Denix junk would be almost a one use & drop into the nearest bin proposition!
Well if you did those miles as an enlisted soldier you have my greatest respect........

HH1 wrote:I went to a arms fair/ open day last year at St George's Hall, Liverpool and there were people from an re-enactment group that had home made rifles... comprised of bits of pipe, plastic and wood..... they looked realistic enough.
Compared to what?
Well the guy I spoke to had spent quite a lot of time getting the details of his "home-made guns" to look right. The enactment guys were there just as an attraction..... it was a day out for them all.

HH1 wrote: Some even had "L" shaped blocks of painted wood in holsters made to look like handguns.
So did I when I was about 7...
Awwww poor you... by that age I had my own air pistols

HH1 wrote:It is very unlikely that any of these re-enactors are in possession of the actual rifle that their relative carried in the Great War ..... and its not as if they are going to be doing any live-firing..... so really, as long as the rifles look the part to the public, then whats the problem ?
Very FEW re-enactors portray a specific relative - so next to no-one WILL have the ACTUAL rifle that that particular relative carried: so zero validity of that argument (HOW would they be able to source the exact issued rifle even if they knew the serial umber, unless it was sold to their relative or "lost" & brought home by them?)
Live-firing, NO. Use with correct caliber full sized blanks, YES.
That is what I meant.... correct caliber blanks
Looking the part to the public...FFS! Joe Public, well known arbiters of ALL known facts on all subjects: one war movie watched = instant expert.

I'm with 450Martini = and have said for years that the easiest way (if possible*) is to have the rifle on a F.A.C. or S.G.C., with an E.F.P.

*BUT - not always possible given that a lot of WW2 designs e now Section 5 in the UK (yet freely owned in the rest of the EU, if only as a converted semi-auto model)

Ok, I agree with the use of deacts when it comes to items that are now Section 5..... but as regards butchering perfectly good rifles so that people who would not be granted an FAC can play at pretending to be soldiers is a bit sad

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 3:35 pm**

snayperskaya wrote:
saddler wrote:
Just reading that bit about the serial number reminds me I have a notebook from the Great War that was my Grandfathers......and on the inside of the front cover, written in pencil, is his rifles serial number!.
I wonder what the chances are that someone owns it and shoots it today?.

Now that would be awesome if they did

Sadly though, far too many of these old rifles will have been destroyed by deactivation

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 4:25 pm**

HH1 wrote: Ok, I agree with the use of deacts when it comes to items that are now Section 5..... but as regards butchering perfectly good rifles so that people who would not be granted an FAC can play at pretending to be soldiers is a bit sad

As much as I hate to see good rifles deactivated, isn't it a bit presumptuous and judgemental to assume that those reenacting wouldn't be granted FACs? Some people simply don't want to, or arent able to (for reasons other than their character) to possess active firearms.

it seems you have a problem with those who choose to do living history, and rifles being deactivated would appear to more of a justification rather than a legitimate reason to look down on them. Your choice of language throughout this thread would certainly suggest as much.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2016 4:37 pm**

A deactivated rifle is a piece if history that can be enjoyed by far more people than the equivalent on FAC that's locked away.
I'd prefer a rifle to be deactivated at the end of it's life rather than smelted down and lost forever.

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