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Hi guys,
I'm looking into buying an F class rifle, the category it falls into doesn't matter to me as my club doesn't use the proper categories etc.
I've been looking at the .223 and the 6.5x47mm calibre's in particular, I don't fancy .308 purely due to the fact every 308 I've shot, it's had horrendous recoil and i just didn't enjoy shooting it.

I'm looking for some advice, mainly from people who either own, shoot regularly or know a bit more than me about the 6.5mm cartridge. What benefits does it have over the .223 apart from the obvious longer range.

Also, any reloading data would be nice as well, of course I will be purchasing a general reloading book for all my reloading needs but just some setups that people have been getting tight groups with? The distances I'm shooting at the moment are 200m and 500m.

Also, what twist rates of barrels are suitable for 6.5x47mm rounds? I was looking at getting a 1:7 for a .223 so I could shoot up to 90g bullets.

Thanks
Blair

Hi Blair,

I own a .223, 6.5x47 Lapua and a .308 (among other calibres too) so I can make a fair comparison across all three of these calibres. I know what you mean with regards to the .308, I have a Tikka T3 varmint with a 20" barrel and the recoil, although not painful, is a bit fierce. It's definitely not fun to shoot all day with. The 6.5x47 Lapua I have is a 28" heavy Border barrel on a blueprinted remingon 700 action which sits in an AICS. With a Vortex 6-24x50 on top it is quite a heavy package. Recoil wise I'd say it's between .223 and .308 and I can easily shoot this rifle all day long. I've spent most time shooting it at 100m (for load development) and have shot it on three occasions out to 1,000m at Sennybridge F range. With the right load, you gain a significant advantage over .223 and .308 due to the excellent ballistic coefficient of the 6.5mm projectiles. This means that it retains more velocity over distance and therefore has a flatter trajectory. A 123gr 6.5mm projectile has a muzzle velocity of 2,900fps. A 69gr .224 projectile has a similar muzzle velocity of ~2,900fps. If you look at Lapua projectiles, the 6.5mm has a BC G1 of 0.527 versus the .224 BC G1 of 0.341. Therefore it's obvious to see the benefits of the 6.5mm versus the .223.

However, there are some downsides. For example, the cost of the brass is pretty significant. In the UK Lapua brass (the only brand I know who makes it) is around £110 per 100. I've bought mine from Europe and saves me around £30 after shipping costs which is a good saving. So far I've only tried Ramshot Big Game and Reload Swiss RS50 using Lapua 123gr Scenars with mixed results. Big Game produces quite erratic velocity spread which may produce some "dodgy" results at long range, but for 2-500m it should be fine. I've noticed that I was getting pierced primers when loading with standard CCI small rifle primers, so I swapped to CCI small rifle magnum primers (after altering powder loads) and now I no longer get pierced primers. I'm due to get Reload Swiss RS60 (slower burning powder than RS50) to see how this works in the rifle too. For a 123gr bullet the "magic" velocity is around 2,900fps so you're gonna want a chronograph for load development to maximise the potential. Other owners have had good success with Varget and Reloder 17 but I find these powders quite expensive compared to Reload Swiss.

If you don't manage to find a used 6.5x47 Lapua rifle, then you'll have to have a gunsmith make a custom rifle for you since it's not an off the shelf calibre. I had mine built with minimal cost involved (since I'm no serious F-class shooter, I was just interested in a good 6.5mm calibre rifle) so it can be quite pricey if you really want a new/custom made receiver and match trigger. I'm more than happy to talk cost if you want to PM me.

Twist rate - I think mine is a 1:8.5 but I've only ever shot 123gr projectiles out of my setup. The throat is shallow (if that's the correct wording?) so I don't even get the long OAL as stated in loading manuals so I'm not going to bother with 139gr bullets. The good thing about this is that I can control bullet jump however I want.

Have a read through here too, there's also a small passage at the bottom from our very own Laurie Holland!
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/65x47/

Thanks very much for the information! I'm going for a custom job anyway and have been talking back and forth with Mik from Dolphin, and will be going down to his place next year to have a look, chat, feel etc.
Brass wise, I have a guy at my club who shoots 6.5x47Lapua so ill quiz his brain on where he sources his brass and cost age, not to brag but it doesn't bother me that much, since as long as it's good brass, which lapua is then it should be reload able a good few times as long as the load is not too pokey I believe?
Thanks again

Mik from Dolphin

From what I've heard, he's a good guy and you'll be looked after!

With regards to buying brass, check my comment in this thread. I mentioned two websites that are worth checking out.
http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=24164

I can't comment on brass life as I've only re-sized (neck size bushings) three times. I can say that you get good case mouth obturation since the necks don't require much cleaning after shooting!

Success with 90s in .223 takes a bit of luck and a great deal of handloading attention / expertise. Everything has to be near perfect for these bullets to perform in the cartridge. Also, the chamber throat set-up (freebore) has to be very long indeed to suit 90s. It's not just rifling twist rates involved. If throated optimally for the 90gn VLD, lighter bullets, even the various 80gn models don't group well usually. Then, there is only a single worthwhile 90gn 0.224" bullet available. Forget the Sierra MK, it's relatively low BC, and was designed specifically for AR-15s in US High-Power Service Rifle XTC shooting at 600 yards and relatively low velocities. That leaves the 90gn JLK VLD which nobody is importing now but may be available through some of the American or European specialist online suppliers / exporters. (Although recent comments on this and other forums say that while JLK match bullets are listed, they show permanently as 'out of stock'.) Berger used to make two 90s, a VLD and LR BT tangent ogive model, the latter favoured by many American FTR 223 shooters as they couldn't get the finicky VLD to perform, but when the great shortages appeared two/three years back, Berger dropped it leaving just the VLD model and have no plans to reintroduce it. Right now, none of the Berger importers has the 90 VLD in stock, and nobody can give an estimate for when supplies will arrive.

A better plan with a 7-inch twist 223 for most people is to have it throated to suit the 80.5gn Berger LRBT 'Fullbore', an outstanding design, and this gives the option of using several other 80gn models. Bryan Litz, Berger's bullet designer and the celebrated ballistician, is working on a 0.224" heavy Hybrid as the definitive L-R 22 bullet for FTR and similar. He says it won't be a 90, more likely somewhere in the 82-84gn bracket. Bryan has never liked the 90s believing they push the design parameters too far for consistent operation. If / when the Hybrid appears, I wouldn't be surprised if the 90gn VLD is eventually dropped.

An issue that affects both 223 and 6.5X47L, but much more the latter, is Small Rifle primer cup extrusion ('cratering') and 'blanking' (where the cup fails and a small brass plug detaches being blown back into the bolt body through the firing pin hole). This affects rifles built on unmodified factory rifle actions such as the Remington 700 and is sometimes so bad that bolt bushing is required to reduce the clearances around the firing pin tip. It's not an issue in custom rifles using match actions (such as the Barnard S and Nesika K that Dolphin uses in its builds as examples). If rebarrelling a factory rifle, .260 Rem and 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor may be better options as they use Large Rifle primers.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is the up and coming cartridge in its class. It is now becoming available as one of limited chambering options in the new factory long-range 'precision' rifles, the Ruger Precision Rifle just arrived and a sensation on both side of the Atlantic and the Savage 12 LRP. This pair provide 26-inch barrel out of the box rifles that shoot extremely well to 1,000 yards, considerably beyond that distance in fact on American alfresco desert 'ranges'. There is a huge choice of 120-142gn 6.5mm bullets and they are very easy to handload for. Although, hardly available until now in this country, Hornady makes 6.5 Creedmoor ammo in two AMAX bullet weights for the non handloader that is cheaper than other match versions of alternative cartridges such as 308 Win.

I know exactly how you mean about the 90g bullets in the .223, myself and the guy i go shooting with were trying to develop a load for this, but struggled and I think he's now given up and went back to a 79g head (i think, I can't quite remember). However he himself admits he gets p*** off too easily.

Myself, I want to basically start with the lowest load and work up and find the sweet spot using trial and error with the books etc. Hence why I want to move away from the .223 and into a new calibre for myself and learn all I can about it like I mentioned prieviously.

This cratering and blanking, will not apply to myself as I am hoping to get a Barnard S action, tried it a lot of times, against the old Rem 700 action, and a couple of other actions that I can't quite remember, but I much preferred it, mainly for the smoothness, and the whole feel of the action, personally I think it's one of the best actions in the world and will hopefully use it for a long time until I find something I like more.

Basically I have my mind set on my action, stock and optics, it's purely the calibre that I need to make my mind up on. Whether I stick with the .223 I've been shooting for the past 8 months now (on my friends rifle) or go it alone and get the 6.5x47L and learn about it on my own, which I think I personally would prefer.

Looking forward to hearing your report already! Especially on that nice, Barnard action.

ooman, we'd recommend a 6.5mm cartridge over the other two because of the versatility it has. At short ranges it's the match of the .223 and at long ranges it packs more ooomph ! * than a 308 due to the better ballistic co-efficient and thus energy retention. Our preferred flavour is 6.5x55 Swedish but x47 is good too.

You won't go far wrong dealing with Mik. He'll ask what you really want to achieve from your shooting, question your reasoning, make a suggestion here and an observation there, then outline the various options open to you. You'll then be in a position to make an informed choice from a potentially bewildering list of possibilities. You will end up with a superlative bit of ballistrikkery - so beware, after buying a plumbum projector from the Dolphinarium you will have no excuses left for missing the target other than operator error.






* A technical term relating to the ability to knock down a steel plate

This thread may give you an idea what to expect from a visit to the dolphinarium...

http://full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f= ... um#p224561

Great read and I'm thoroughly looking forward to the 10 hour round trip now!