Strange request from Hampshire FEO

[ColinR]

A 18 year old friend, a member of the NRA and an FAC holder, has applied for a variation for a .308 rifle. He currently holds a 1942 .303 Lithgow SMLE, but was refused ammunition when he originally applied for the FAC prior to his 17th birthday. As a result I hold .303 ammunition on my FAC as directed by Hampshire.

Apart from applying for a .308 he has applied to hold ammunition as he is now 18.

The FEO has arrange an inspection visit for next Tuesday but has requested the applicant have a receipt available setting out from whom he bought the SMLE. This seems very strange in that both he and the seller completed the necessary documentation and the rifle has been duly noted on his FAC for over a year now.

Does anyone know the meaning of this request and does it fall within recognised guidelines as in all the years I have held an FAC this question has never been asked, but then I come under Wiltshire. Is this Hampshire just being difficult? Colin

[saddler]

Tell your friend to contact the FEO & ask that he puts his request to see the purchase receipt IN WRITING

I had my first FAC at 17, covered several calibres of rifle & pistol.

NEVER heard of ANYONE having an FAC for no ammunition (outside of re-enacting only usage, that is)

[ColinR]

Hi saddler I was at the original meeting with the FEO prior to grant of the FAC. We were told that a 16 year old had no reason to have a rifle and if it was granted no ammunition would be included. They were however happy for me to hold ammunition for his use and this was included in a letter from Hampshire accompanying the Certificate. They were adamant that no ammunition would be granted. He is now 18 and shoots competitively for the Army cadets as well as being an NRA member, so someone who has clearly indicated a serious intent, which seems to count for nothing at Hampshire. Colin

[M99]

As he is an NRA member, the person to speak to is Iain Robertson at the NRA, he will be the person with the answers.

Mike

[saddler]

Hi

No mention above of his initial grant being at 16.
Sort of see why they had the ammo criteria THEN, but not now...that aspect (to me) should have been removed at age 17; so someone needs an interview without coffee for that not being automatically carried out.

Still see ZERO reason for the FEO to NEED(want) to see a receipt for a private transaction re. the sale/purchase of the .303 rifle...unless the RFD is under investigation? Fishier than Grimsby docks...

Overstepping his/her authority springs to mind...as I've never heard of this being required/mentioned in either the Firearms Acts nor in the "Guidance to Police"

[dave_303]

FLD seem to make up things as they go along with under 18s, I've have my FAC and SGC since I was 16, I could possess firearms and ammunition, however, the condition on it was that until I was 17 I could not acquire any guns or ammo, unless it was gifted to me from my fathers FAC.

[M99]

I can see where the FEO is going with this, so I would suggest you seek advice. Under 18 he was not permitted to purchase a firearm (but can receive one as a gift if FAC authorised the possession )

So I would suggest the FEO is on a fishing trip, hence my advice of seeking advice from Iain.

[Tony-c]

Yup that would be my guess. They want to see how he aquired it as aged under 18 i believe hes not authorised to purchase. Only be gifted

[ColinR]

Sorry I omitted to say I bought the rifle and gifted it to the lad from my FAC when he was under 17 and it was confirmed on notification to Hampshire - they were obviously happy then as they added it to his certificate. They had all the relevant information at the time the rifle was gifted and made no further inquiries, so why they might want to play silly games now is a mystery. I will certainly give Iain a call at the NRA as I am a member also.

As suggested the FEO probably thinks the lad bought the rifle himself rather than it being gifted as confirmed to Hampshire. It would seem obvious that if the lad had managed to buy the rifle under 17 Hampshire having his DoB would nave been at fault issuing a certificate to hold that firearm.

Additionally Hampshire suggested I mentor the lad which I had done prior to applying for an FAC by supporting him through his NRA probationary and then overseeing all his shooting since.

[Gaz]

I agree with the above posters - the FEO's on a fishing trip, possibly having realised there's a chance he could get a revocation through here. Get legal advice, talk to Iain at the NRA, and make sure the FEO puts every single demand for paperwork etc in writing. If he won't, you know he's on a fishing trip.

I wouldn't supply a receipt without legal advice to do so - the onus is on the FEO to prove a criminal offence took place (edit - not suggesting you've committed one at all, just reading between the lines trying to figure out the FEO's intentions here and very probably getting it completely wrong!). If the FEO hasn't made a proper record on the national firearms licensing computer of how the rifle ended up on the lad's FAC then that is a disciplinary offence for him, not an excuse for you and the lad to be strung up.