Following on from the rather heated debate about random inspections, I'd like your opinions on these scenarios please.
You've come home from a shoot on a wet day, removed the bolt from your rifle and locked it and the ammunition away. The rifle is wet, so you clean the bore, wipe it down then put it in the airing cupboard for a few hours to dry out. You remain in the house throughout this time.
SCENARIO 1
The police arrive for an unannounced inspection and you let them in (no debate here please). You show them the contents of your cabinet, plus the rifle in the airing cupboard. Any offence committed?
SCENARIO 2
As above but your wife is also in the house. Same question.
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:03 pm
by Sim G
No.
The Firearms Rules 1998 (SI 1941) (as amended)
(a) Paragraph (a) provides for the firearms and ammunition to which the certificate relates to be stored securely at all times except as provided in paragraph (b), so as to prevent, as far as is reasonably practicable, access by an unauthorised person; and
(b) Paragraph (b) lists the circumstances in which the security requirements of paragraph (a) do not apply:
i.when the firearms or ammunition are in use;
ii.when certificate holders have the firearm with them for cleaning, repairing or testing it or in connection with its use, transfer or sale; or
iii. for some other purpose connected with its use, transfer or sale; or
iv. the firearm or ammunition is in transit in connection with any of these purposes.
And to touch on the previous thread, unannounced visits will be used in relation to a specific set of circumstances, if justified....
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:30 pm
by Mr_Logic
In summary, my understanding is that reasonable security measures are required at all times; practically this means rifles should be locked up unless there is a damn good reason for them not to be.
In your example above, drying a rifle to prevent damage qualifies. If you'd left it in there for a few days, however, that would be a different story.
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:14 pm
by Sim G
Mr_Logic wrote:
In your example above, drying a rifle to prevent damage qualifies. If you'd left it in there for a few days, however, that would be a different story.
Not if it was still wet after a few days.....
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:15 pm
by Mr_Logic
Hmmm.... But you can't stay with it that whole time. That would make it a more interesting discussion...
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:21 pm
by meles meles
Are you suggesting that the police are so incompetent that there are thieves and vagabonds awaiting around every corner to pounce on our houses and steal our property?
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:31 pm
by Mr_Logic
Yes :-)
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:35 pm
by breacher
I would say its "in use" if drying out.
If Police arrive to do spot check, clearly they have no way of knowing whether it has been there hours or days. So, you tell them its been there a few hours and you have remained in the house throughout.
Like a lot of criminal offences, people convict themselves through Q and A's
Why is that man bruised ? He robbed me and I used reasonable force to detain him. He struggled causing the bruises - No arrest.
He robbed me and I was angry and twatted him to teach him a lesson. Arrest.
What is that penknife in your pocket for ? Its for cutting fruit. No arrest.
Its a rough area officer - one needs protection - Arrest.
I have lost count of the number of people I have seen talking themselves into a criminal offence when they just needed to shut the fcuk up and wait for the andrenalin to drop before speaking.
See the pattern here ?
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:49 pm
by meles meles
A closed mouth gathers no feet ?
Re: Safe storage question
Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:05 pm
by kennyc
breacher wrote:I would say its "in use" if drying out.
If Police arrive to do spot check, clearly they have no way of knowing whether it has been there hours or days. So, you tell them its been there a few hours and you have remained in the house throughout.
Like a lot of criminal offences, people convict themselves through Q and A's
Why is that man bruised ? He robbed me and I used reasonable force to detain him. He struggled causing the bruises - No arrest.
He robbed me and I was angry and twatted him to teach him a lesson. Arrest.
What is that penknife in your pocket for ? Its for cutting fruit. No arrest.
Its a rough area officer - one needs protection - Arrest.
I have lost count of the number of people I have seen talking themselves into a criminal offence when they just needed to shut the fcuk up and wait for the andrenalin to drop before speaking.
See the pattern here ?
not entirely relevant but interesting all the same.