The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I want to start measuring neck thickness and then using a tool/cutter to get more consistency. I am a little confused as there are many types of kit available for both tasks. What do you guys and girls recommend? I have a budget of about £150 Max. All advice appreciated.

Firstly, you need some sort of measuring device to check the thickness of the brass in the neck - Lyman do a tube (or ball) mike for under £50 - available from Hannam's Reloading. All the major tool manufacturers do them - Mitatoyo etc. but they are more expensive.

For neck-turning, I would recommend the latest Sinclair model NT 4000 - you'll see it in the catalogue - it's green. It allows very precise cuts to be easily measured and made.

But, before you go down the neck turning route - a few thoughts. If you are using a standard chamber neck, you will not make matters better by increasing the chamber to neck clearance - the idea is to reduce this clearance for accuracy.

If you start off with quality brass like Lapua, neck turning won't give you anything. They are so consistent in the necks. But, you could use the tube mike to cull any that may display lack of concentricity.

I always neck-turn for 6PPC benchrest but for anything else I don't bother. I tend to spec. a reamer that cuts what I call a 'no turn' neck - gives about three-thou. clearance.

In the past a lot of brass, particularly American, was very poor but of late, brass is much better. You'll gain more advantage by using Lapua brass and changing it as often as you can afford.

I use only Lapua Brass. Thank you for the input. I might by the micrometer first and try the culling method. Hopefully the Lapua will be consistent enough as you say to save me investing in a neck turner.

paulbradley wrote:I use only Lapua Brass. Thank you for the input. I might by the micrometer first and try the culling method. Hopefully the Lapua will be consistent enough as you say to save me investing in a neck turner.

Morning Bradders....what you may well ask am I doing online when I should be on Stickledown? Suffering mate, my backs Donald ducked and I am afraid its a biggie this time, so it would take morphine and a CHARRV to get me on and off the firing point.

Right, having already had a fine answer from a fine man and an expert, what can I add? Well I can try and hopefully Vince can quash a few sillies but.

Its fairly well known that brass may well have a thick and thin side that starts very early on in the forming process. At worst this gives what Laurie H would call a banana case, at best you would not notice it.

I have a DVD by G David Tubb that you are welcome to borrow, you have to watch it over several sittings or you nod off, but it has some interesting bits, notably on neck turning.

His take is that you only take it off one side to "Clean them up".

I tried it once, but could I for the life of me detect a difference? Not a chance.

The idea is to get perfectly parallel, consistently thick necks on a correct centre.

The first I guess you can do, but how long will it stay that way given brass flows forwards and I guess thickens the necks again from the base up (Cue doughnut theory)....does it?

Consistent necks, makes sense, but to me that would mean turning the whole neck and doing it identically on all cases, although I if you batch then slight differences in neck tension would stay within that batch.

Also, to my mind you would need to ream and turn to take brass from both sides of the "Hump" as it were.

Centres. It was pointed out to me that if you load a .308 round into a chamber and fire it, its a bit like a 60,000+PSI tandoori oven.

Whatever the concentricity of the chamber is, ultimately the case takes that form, so whats the point, although I guess it starts concentric. I guess that the bullet has left home before anything hits the throat/fireforms and springs back.

I get the point for the BR Guys or custom throats. In some cases they are reloading on the range, but I wonder if we need to?

Hopefully Vince will debunk some of the above.

There was a recent comment about sizing by die alone, or by die then mandrel. The theory was that it put any nasties on the outside of the neck rather than the inside. I am going to test to see if it improves things (I know a few that swear by it) but thinking about it if there is a difference in neck thickness, then should there not still be a difference in neck tension whether the thick portion is pushed in, or pushed out...? Answers on a postcard please.

Another one is reaming flash holes. It should never need doing on Lapua brass because they are drilled and not punched, but what happens when you correct the primer pocket?

The flash hole gets slightly burred over, so reduced. Is this a good thing on a case using a SR primer (or any size), not really.

So I set about cleaning mine out with a reamer (K&M?). Great little tool that you cannot really screw up with, but it does the inside and the flash hole from the neck end, not the side I needed.

I sorted it with a modellers pin vice and a slightly larger drill bit set so that it just kisses the opening to the flash hole. The end result was you have a bright, very fine bevel that you need a magnifying glass to check, but it does the job.

I also found that a bit of napier rifle clean on the pocket uniformer gives a much nicer finish. I clean with a cutip afterwards and all cases are washed in solvent to remove what wax did not get wiped away.

What surprised me was how the reamer popped into some flash holes far easier than others and removed less brass.....not as consistent as we may think then. Bottom line, the lot will get inspected and reamed next time round.

How will all of this affect the end result....it might, just might, drop a round the right side of the ring that would otherwise scored lower...as long as I get the wind, position, shot release, dialling, etc etc right

Anyway, some thoughts, myths and errors of understanding there to ponder....discuss (if you can be arsed ).

Paul, take a look here.

Jury still out with me , I can, but not really sure whether it will help much.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ng-basics/

In case prep I drew a line at this point. My bench already looks like a science lab and has a not inconsiderable amount invested in it.
I feel that I would be better spending time learning how to read the wind and mirage. How to position myself behind my rifle and practicing breathing and shot release. i believe that these will get me more consistency down range than spending more money and time on turning necks. Not that you suggested turning necks was a substitute for range time.
When I get to the top of the scores and I am beaten by 1 or 2 points and I know I read the wind well all day and every shot was a good one, then I will consider neck turning. Or perhaps I will just shake their hand and know I was beaten by a better shooter!

DM

Maggot wrote:Paul, take a look here.

Jury still out with me , I can, but not really sure whether it will help much.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... ng-basics/

A great article!

The starting point - with accuracy - starts with the rifle. The more accurate your rifle is, the more it will benefit from careful brass prep.

One of our F/TR Class shooters recently entered a UKBRA 1000 yd benchrest comp to test his 308 loads. His rifle will soon be featured in 'Gun of the week' on 6mmBR.com.

His brass prep. was quite minimal - no neck turning - but it is an accurate rifle, built by one of our top gunsmiths. He managed to shoot a 2.688 inch 5-shot group!

Thanks for the superb info sir! Sorry to hear your back is jiggered. I did mine a few months ago and it was not pleasant. Lifted something stupidly light and didn't give it a second thought until I felt a twang.. I had a look for you among the league shooters (your easy to spot!) and surmised that you weren't there.. Anyway onto brass.. I finally got my own reloading room sorted about a month ago as previous to that I was using Sam's kit (he lives a couple of doors down). This has allowed me to begin serious load development with fewer time constraints. Ideal.I have been taking a Zen like approach to brass prep... Basically that involves obsessing over minutia.. So I've been doing the primer pockets and deburring flash holes. I got a Lyman tool for the flash holes which works well. I count the amount of turns it takes to make a smooth feeling hole. Most were 3 turns. Out of 100 cases 5 required 5 turns and one needed 7. A definite variation but not to bad I thought. I think I will get a decent micrometer just to batch the cases if any a seriously varied but I will leave the turning for now. I've just started using some Redding comp dies which I am super happy with. They are very consistent unlike my old RCBS standards I was using. None of this will gain me as many points as improving my wind reading. That has become priority numero uno..

paulbradley wrote:Thanks for the superb info sir! Sorry to hear your back is jiggered. I did mine a few months ago and it was not pleasant. Lifted something stupidly light and didn't give it a second thought until I felt a twang.. I had a look for you among the league shooters (your easy to spot!) and surmised that you weren't there.. Anyway onto brass.. I finally got my own reloading room sorted about a month ago as previous to that I was using Sam's kit (he lives a couple of doors down). This has allowed me to begin serious load development with fewer time constraints. Ideal.I have been taking a Zen like approach to brass prep... Basically that involves obsessing over minutia.. So I've been doing the primer pockets and deburring flash holes. I got a Lyman tool for the flash holes which works well. I count the amount of turns it takes to make a smooth feeling hole. Most were 3 turns. Out of 100 cases 5 required 5 turns and one needed 7. A definite variation but not to bad I thought. I think I will get a decent micrometer just to batch the cases if any a seriously varied but I will leave the turning for now. I've just started using some Redding comp dies which I am super happy with. They are very consistent unlike my old RCBS standards I was using. None of this will gain me as many points as improving my wind reading. That has become priority numero uno..

Cheeky scrote...easy to spot...why? Because the light goes down as they drag me accross the sun screaming and kicking from the ice cream van to the point tesnews

Paul. dont arse about with cheapo bits and bats, measurement is the cornerstone (or at least repeatable comparison).

If you have not doen so already.

Talk to Ovenpaa (David) at the shooting shed, get one of his comparators and marry it to a half decent mitutoyo digital vernier.

They are designed round the mitutoyo and you will see why, they fit like a ruddy glove every time.

This route unlocked the consistency and available accuracy of my loading kit (forster mostly), his gauges are pretty special. I know we get on but I cannot recommend Daves kit enough anyway (even if I thought the bloke was a tosser, which he clearly is'nt, even though he is regularly rude to me.....you cut em deep ovenpaa :55: ....for the benefit of the TR gadgies (so Dougan does not have to translate) its called banter....B-A-N-T-E-R....Right? , we love you really )

For a long time I believed that there were issues with the berger hybrids I was using, it was actually down to the poor combination of vernier and gauge.

I can now spot whether my technique is correct etc, so I tend to load my fowlers first to settle things in. I got through 50 last night with +/- half a though seating depth, no drama, just good, precise, kit.

I dont mind shamlessly prostituting myself giving the Shooting Shed some free advertising if only to show a fellow lead slinger the light...however dim and distant.... tongueout

Talking of prostitution, I dunno about Zen, more like the Karma Sutra. That's the first time I have seen a nice smooth hole undergo quality control....and Vince reckons he's the gun pimp clapclap

TTFN

Magotty one

I'll have a word with Ovenpaa, thanks for the tip. I really don't like to buy cheap bits as it never gives you a consistent baseline as you say. And as for you being easy to spot, well you cast a fair size shadow so I was just going to head for the dimmest lit area!