Mercer & NRA Against Reloading

[karen]

Kenny - the NRA DO have a robust system of incident reporting in place. However incidents take time to investigate fully and if there is a warning to be given then it is promulgated widely as soon as possible (see the recent warning http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/conten ... RA&id=1475 )

Once there has been a full investigation on these incidents then I am sure members and non-members will be told.

[Ovenpaa]

Karen, is there a section on the NRA website for earlier reports.

[karen]

Nope but that might be a good idea for the future

[Maggot]

Kenny C
It matters not how many incidents there are or what caused them. They create work and worry and the MoD can solve the problem very easily from their point of view by just stopping us shooting.

Of course it matters Steve. I agree the stats don't matter much unless they show a trend, but Kenny is right to ask. You talk rightly about the way the MOD works, but think back matey. If there was a potential safety issue, were you not made aware?

Of course you were. I remember the mountains of paperwork from defective ammo etc and how it got reported, usually locally and accurately initially then more formally later.

This is entirely relevant because if you are educating and informing as regards safety, you are then more likely to reduce or even totally prevent the very incidents the MOD are quite rightly worried about.

Particularly so if the incidents are all of a similar trend, this might well make it an easy trend to nip in the bud.

The only other conclusions a cynic could deduce from any reluctance to "fess up" could be arrogance (in that we are too dim to understand the implications), the old "Knowledge is power" bullshit, or simply the old boys net trying to preserve someone's perceived legendary reputation (and lord only knows there are enough demi gods about to qualify this one).

I could not imagine how anyone could defend a request under the FOI act regarding these incidents, which is why I feel it is better that the membership is informed and educated with the FACTS than they get it from the Sun....or more likely the Observer

Its a no brainer (god I hate that saying but its cock on).

[Maggot]

Nope but that might be a good idea for the future

Its a long overdue oversight K, sorry.

[Mike Jenvey]

Morning all.

In aviation, any incident/accident is highlighted to all, with any subsequent detailed investigation report published in the open. This is to ensure maxium publicity & minimise the chances of the same thing happening again.

If there are any interim recommendations, these are also published. Obviously, there are less variables in shooting, but the principle should be the same. This should be a very important aspect of NRA reporting. The numbers/types/severity of any incidents are very important to know so that the appropriate level of response can be actioned (&/or to defend the imposition of draconian "knee jerk" measures). Statistically, it also allows the supervisory agency (NRA in this case) to monitor trends.

With regard to a specialist (mandatory) reloading course, whilst probably a good idea, I'm not sure if this would work. The basics could be taught & assessed on the course, & a suitable "safety" certificate could be issued. However, what happens afterwards, when the person is using slightly different equipment to make different loads in different firearms? How do you follow up on subsequent competency & safety??

For example, on a local range (or even at Bisley), a firer gets indications that their hand loads may not be safe - if the firer doesn't tell the RCO, no-one else might know. At Bisley, the firer might even be on his/her own. So, integrity is a very important aspect to handloading safety. It's all very well asking a firer about loads - but again, how can this be verified? Spot chrono checks might give some indication, but wouldn't necessarily show unsafe loads, just the velocity.

Not an easy matter at all!

[Mike357]

Well said Karen. Too many people make rash comments about the NRA without reading what they are doing. It was repeated again this year about the need to develop the regions although they see this is a huge task. Also see the need to concentrate on all disciplines and clear away crap from Bisley. I was gob smacked to see what they did re the development of the 26 caravan pitches but they made a very tough decision that was unpopular, in order to improve Bisley.

[Maggot]

Morning all.

In aviation, any incident/accident is highlighted to all, with any subsequent detailed investigation report published in the open. This is to ensure maxium publicity & minimise the chances of the same thing happening again.

If there are any interim recommendations, these are also published. Obviously, there are less variables in shooting, but the principle should be the same. This should be a very important aspect of NRA reporting. The numbers/types/severity of any incidents are very important to know so that the appropriate level of response can be actioned (&/or to defend the imposition of draconian "knee jerk" measures). Statistically, it also allows the supervisory agency (NRA in this case) to monitor trends.

With regard to a specialist (mandatory) reloading course, whilst probably a good idea, I'm not sure if this would work. The basics could be taught & assessed on the course, & a suitable "safety" certificate could be issued. However, what happens afterwards, when the person is using slightly different equipment to make different loads in different firearms? How do you follow up on subsequent competency & safety??

For example, on a local range (or even at Bisley), a firer gets indications that their hand loads may not be safe - if the firer doesn't tell the RCO, no-one else might know. At Bisley, the firer might even be on his/her own. So, integrity is a very important aspect to handloading safety. It's all very well asking a firer about loads - but again, how can this be verified? Spot chrono checks might give some indication, but wouldn't necessarily show unsafe loads, just the velocity.

Not an easy matter at all!

Spooky...Just googled Air Clues....good info and stunning photography.

What about shooting clues?

[kennyc]

Kenny - the NRA DO have a robust system of incident reporting in place. However incidents take time to investigate fully and if there is a warning to be given then it is promulgated widely as soon as possible (see the recent warning http://www.nra.org.uk/common/asp/conten ... RA&id=1475 )

Once there has been a full investigation on these incidents then I am sure members and non-members will be told.

thank you for your reply Karen, however I feel it highlights the NRA's Myopia to communication with their members, I can now see the safety notice,but only because you have gone above and beyound to bring it to my attention! however I have just been over my emails, and I see no warning message ! it is simplicity itself to copy/paste the notices, or attach the .pdf to a global email and send it to all members, it is already done with NRA news letters, and special action mails such as the recent petition notices.
Karen I am not getting at you, I appreciate that you are being open and helpful in bringing your knowledge of the way that the NRA operates to a wider audience.
I will put my hands up and say I almost never look at the NRA site, I find it clunky and a pain to navigate, however I do always look at emails I receive, and I suspect I am not alone in this.safety messages are only useful if they are detailed and READ! and just putting them onto the site is not the most effective way to bring them to the notice of the membership.

[Mike Jenvey]

.....they made a very tough decision that was unpopular, in order to improve Bisley.

That is a very separate topic. There was little or no prior input from members, & despite me asking Mercer several times, no details forthcoming from any relevant business plan. Will try to find a caravan thread & comment there, rather than divert this thread.

This one seems to be the right area:

http://www.full-bore.co.uk/viewtopic.ph ... d&start=10