The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

I had a thought on the commute home this evening, we have all these independent guys building AR's often from scratch (Eg Lantac or Bradley arms). Are there not patents and ownership of the AR design? Admittedly the straight pull versions are different to the original design but what about the Sec5 variants or the all the rifles produced in the US to that design. I'm pretty sure the same can be said for AK variants with all the producers around the world.

So my question is could you produce an under-lever such as a Winchester or a Marlin in the same fashion as the AR builders? Or would your design have to be significantly different to effectively become your own design? Just a thought and I wondered what others thought of the possibilities.

Patents expire, in the UK usually after 25 years.

Most stuff is a tweaked copy of someone else innovation, very little is original. The advantage of the AR platform is it's modular and each iteration is sometimes an improvement on what was there before although a lot of the improvements actually serve no practical purpose other than to look or feel 'tacticool'.

Fundamentally the AR platform isn't that different from the original design, any changes have been incremental over time and small changes, it's never had an overhaul mechanically that has significantly altered the rifle

Not sure on ARs but only a handful of countries produced AKs actually under licence.Countries like Bulgaria,China,Poland,East Germany and Romania immediately spring to mind and possibly India and Pakistan .The majority of countries produced there own copies without a license, they are even built from scratch in the Khyber Pass region of Afghanistan/Pakistan.Then you've got all the ones in the States built on new US made receivers using readily available parts kits (usually a complete AK minus the receiver,and often interesting stuff like old PLO AKMs etc).If I remember correctly the only country with a license from Izhmash (now called Kalashnikov Concern) to produce the Ak-100 series domestically is Venezuela

JS569 wrote:Fundamentally the AR platform isn't that different from the original design, any changes have been incremental over time and small changes, it's never had an overhaul mechanically that has significantly altered the rifle

Going from direct impingement to a gas ram system in most of the newer models is pretty significant for the platform IMO but obviously nothing 'new' to firearms overall.

Armalite originally sold the rights to Colt in the 50's. I'm sure I've read somewhere that the US Govt now have it and that they issue it to builders. I could be wrong though.

Blackstuff wrote:

JS569 wrote:Fundamentally the AR platform isn't that different from the original design, any changes have been incremental over time and small changes, it's never had an overhaul mechanically that has significantly altered the rifle

Going from direct impingement to a gas ram system in most of the newer models is pretty significant for the platform IMO but obviously nothing 'new' to firearms overall.

Is the gas ram just a piston system? Plenty of DI's are still been made and sold, correct me if I'm wrong the military M4 is DI too

JS569 wrote:

Blackstuff wrote:

JS569 wrote:Fundamentally the AR platform isn't that different from the original design, any changes have been incremental over time and small changes, it's never had an overhaul mechanically that has significantly altered the rifle

Going from direct impingement to a gas ram system in most of the newer models is pretty significant for the platform IMO but obviously nothing 'new' to firearms overall.

Is the gas ram just a piston system? Plenty of DI's are still been made and sold, correct me if I'm wrong the military M4 is DI too

They're the same old models with DI though, i'm talking about the H&K 416 etc Most are either piston/gas ram only, or at least offer it as an option. Much better imo #don'tsh*twhereyoueat

As you said Mark, there's nothing new. The concept of piston driven AR's, the mating of Stoner's rotary locking bolt with a short stroke gas piston, was done in the late 60's early 70's. Remember the AR180/18, known then as the "poor man's M16"? Well that's exactly what it was, a piston driven AR. Even our very much maligned SA80 is a variation on that theme....