The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

For the RFD's on this forum.

I am hearing rumours that all firearms transactions will need to be recorded in electronic format at some point if not already. Personally I am fine with this as I already been recording all of my transactions for S1, S2 and S5 electronically on a spreadsheet for the last 18 months and it works very well for me. Has anyone else heard this and already migrated exclusively to a computer based system?

(4)Every person keeping a register in accordance with this section shall on demand allow [F3a constable][F4or a civilian officer], duly authorised in writing in that behalf by the chief officer of police, to enter and inspect all stock in hand and shall on request by an officer of police so authorised or by an officer of customs and excise produce the register [F5(or if the register is kept by means of a computer, a copy of the information comprised in that register in a visible and legible form);]

Yes, it is a consequence of the European Weapons Directive 2008 (I think that's right without reference tools - certainly some bit of European legislation). All RFDs have until the end of the year to provide registers in electronic form and maintain the data for 20 years - at least that is the substance of the letter I had from Surrey FLD.

Iain

IainWR wrote:Yes, it is a consequence of the European Weapons Directive 2008 (I think that's right without reference tools - certainly some bit of European legislation). All RFDs have until the end of the year to provide registers in electronic form and maintain the data for 20 years - at least that is the substance of the letter I had from Surrey FLD.

Really? So what about the conventions that ensure member states have the sole discretion over foreign policy, crime and punishment and firearms.....? Obviously the UK government has accepted the directive?

Sim G wrote:

IainWR wrote:Yes, it is a consequence of the European Weapons Directive 2008 (I think that's right without reference tools - certainly some bit of European legislation). All RFDs have until the end of the year to provide registers in electronic form and maintain the data for 20 years - at least that is the substance of the letter I had from Surrey FLD.

Really? So what about the conventions that ensure member states have the sole discretion over foreign policy, crime and punishment and firearms.....? Obviously the UK government has accepted the directive?

I think you are probably right about the acceptance of the Directive. I'm less certain you are right on the extent of the available opt-outs. An the letter is at work and just for once I'm not (though still a certain amount of work getting done as we assemble the 2014 NRA Handbook) I can't confirm definitively.

So far, I haven't heard anything from Surrey about a compulsory use of an electronic register. Did any Surrey RFD get a letter or instruction to this effect?

This bit:

(or if the register is kept by means of a computer, a copy of the information comprised in that register in a visible and legible form)


has always been in force. I.e. if you keep you records in a spreadsheet or database, then it must be capable of being printed out in hard copy.


p.s. whilst we're on the subject, what electronic registers are people currently using - other than Excel spreadsheets? Any propriety software worth looking at?

I developed my own spreadsheet to suit the business. I did look at some of the commercial offerings available however they seem biased towards commercial POS systems plus the thought of paying GBP115.00/month for such a system was not appealing. Long term I will see if I can add features such as automatic generation of letters and emails for sales plus the inclusion of a database that holds the RFD and FAC copies I have however it is not really necessary, more a nice to have for me. The most important part is a robust back up procedure.

If you do decide to go the electronic route please don't start with excel if you can get away with it. I can't count the number of business I've supported who are running very important systems on excel, wondering why they don't work on new versions, can't grow, perform poorly etc :-) SQL express is free and quite easy to learn, there are tons of tutorials on the net. It's also easy to support if you decide it needs to grow or needs new features :-)

One for the GTA methinks.

About a year ago I started keeping an electronic copy of my register on a cloud spreadsheet as back up, which is reasonably up to date.

My written register is my primary source and all transaction go in there immediately. I trust computers a lot less than a hard copy. I have lost a lot of data on computers including back ups over the years, that combined with the rapidity of obsolescence in the electronics market I just cannot trust computers.

Writing will always be my go to choice for recording anything, it is just more natural for me that typing. I have been using keyboards daily for 20 years and I've done Pitman typing course but using a keyboard still feels awkward and clumsy whereas a pen with a good nib and a clean sheet of paper is something to relish.

Anything that is totally electronic is an accident waiting to happen.

I update the spreadsheet and then print a copy for our records, I then email a copy to the Viking so we now both have a copy, I back up every 2-3 days or better. Hopefully that is enough however just in case I also keep a copy on a USB pen drive I have.

I work on the premise that a spreadsheet is neater than my hand written version and at least I have multiple copies unlike the single RFD register I used to keep.