The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Debate in Parliament yesterday on the net cost to the police of FAC applications.

Norman Baker (Minister for crime prevention) quoted the figure as being £17.2m (I assume annually?) and that current modernisation of the system was reducing the average cost of £196 to £169 per application.

My thoughts;

1. Current system varies from County to County due to different opinions and interpretations of the Firearms act & it's amendments by individual Chief Constables resulting in waste.

2. New system to provide uniform treatment across the country and a change in system towards one that licences the individual rather than every individual firearm, surely more cost affective?

I agree with both of your points Isle.
They don't say how much of that cost is attributed to variations, nor do they explain what the costs actually are. Judging by the time-scales of South Yorks they can't have more than one person employed part-time managing the applications, plus the FLOs out doing visits.
As the office-worker is a cost regardless, is it fair of them to say "Applications cost £X"?

Could it be that they take the cost of running each individual Firearms Dept and then times that by how many there are?

i.e. 52 constabularies = 52 Firearms Depts x say £330K per year to run = £17.2m(ish).

That would make sense, but would seem very high, at least 10 dedicated staff on pretty good wages?
I'd love to see those costs regionally, do they expect us oop norf, where beer is cheap, to fork out for the ostentatious wages of the shandy drinkers daahn saarf?

Isn't this the point of general taxation though? What proportion of FAC holders are net contributors to the exchequer?

All FAC holders contribute to the exchequer, every time you buy a firearm, ammunition, cleaning kit etc etc you pay 20% VAT

I have said it before - does the overall cost matter?

Every council tax payer contributes to the Police Precept and additional funding is from Central Government funds from taxation. The idea behind the precept is that everyone contributes to the Police, Fire Brigade, and other services whether you use it a little or a lot.

Some examples: I do not have a dog, but I pay towards the dog warden services and the bins provided for dog waste. If a wallet is found in the street and is handed in to the police they will process it through their lost property facility - does the owner of the wallet get charged when he claims it? NO. I am not a member of any political party or group, but if one decides to hold a march or demonstration, do they get charged for policing costs? No. What about police outside sports stadiums? Do the clubs get billed for police time? NO.


So, why should one particular service from the police be charged extra?

Damn right Polchraine! Want to run fit right Barnsley council? I'll back ya ;-)

Polchraine wrote: What about police outside sports stadiums? Do the clubs get billed for police time? NO.

I believe you're correct in terms of lost property/ demonstrations not being charged, but I do know that sports grounds, such as football and cricket grounds are charged....

Sim G wrote:

Polchraine wrote: What about police outside sports stadiums? Do the clubs get billed for police time? NO.

I believe you're correct in terms of lost property/ demonstrations not being charged, but I do know that sports grounds, such as football and cricket grounds are charged....

I did specifically say "Outside Stadiums" - yes they charge for presence inside the stadium and on ground owned by the clubs but not the general policing outside. Have look at: http://www.met.police.uk/foi/pdfs/discl ... 000275.pdf and you will see that the Estimated Cost is significantly higher (~50%) that the Charge Levied. It is te same for other sporting event - Olympics excepted.

I also believe that West Yorks police lost an appeal over charging - sometime last year, they had wrongly billed Leeds United for officers outside the stadium.