A return of Handguns, a discussion.

[SevenSixTwo]

Seems to me that shooting is its own worst enemy, inasmuch as there are still too many old buggers who think the world as it was in the 1980s is the world we live in today, and no amount of reality is going to shake that viewpoint come hell, high water or repeal of the two '97 Acts. This is the sort of person who moans at people on the ranges for wearing the "wrong" jacket or using the "wrong" type of firearms. Frankly I'd love to see all of these people stripped of their FACs and sent on their way with several fleas in their ears.

^ This.

[HALODIN]

They're the generation that taught me how to shoot, respect where respects due. Change is invariably a intergenerational event.

[dromia]

Frankly I'd love to see all of these people stripped of their FACs and sent on their way with several fleas in their ears.

You sound as intolerant as they are, looks like you have joined their ranks already.

[HALODIN]

It isn't clear from a 10 minute look at their website, how they transform "campaign" into "action." I want someone to work with political organisations to safeguard my hobby and I'll pay for it. Whilst a petition is a noble act, it isn't anywhere near proactive enough IMO.

I want to pay to support a politically based organisation, that has real influence on gun ownership.

http://firearmsuk.org/?blogsub=confirming

The team are attempting to unify and present a combined voice for ALL shooting disciplines as equals. Involvement is free, simply sign up and get involved, the Facebook page is quite popular why not check it out?

[M1Charles1M]

There are no organisations that will currently encompass support for ALL the shooting disciplines that have a subscription memebership. BASC, NRA, CPSA, etc, etc, etc are all single issue or single discipline organisations and unless I have missed something there is no one organisation lobbying for all, indeed in my view some of the established single sport groups are very dividsive in their support for all firearms ownership, happy to sacrifice others in the name of their cause.

Firearms UK is a very young organisation whose concept was to address the very issue you have highlighted and as it develops it may well become a subscription organisation but unless it gets support for it's lobbying on all firearms ownership it will never progress to the point where it does afford that level of influenece.

Visit the Facebook page and raise your issues there and get a response from the team, you will be well met.

One of the members of Firearms UK was responsible for the circa 20k signature petition against the Airgun Licensing in Scotland issue still under consideration. They are in touch with BASC, CA, NRA, etc and forming those liaisons as we speak. Action takes the form of direct communication with Political Parties, MP's, Groups, Organisations, Trade, Individuals, uncle tom cobly and all. You can address your own concern by adding your views, the more support the more credibility in the mind of the opposing argument?

Clealry I am supportive of their aims, including the return of S5 firearms to S1 and the right to self defence issue, get in touch and make your owm mind up after having spoken with them?

Regards!

[froggy]

Sendit,

IMO return of S5 firearms to S1 and the right to self defence issue are two distinct issues and I strongly fear than an organisation working in favour of both causes will end-up going nowhere ...

[HALODIN]

Thanks for putting that across. I'll spend some more time on their website and get in touch with them soon.

Cheers,

Craig.

There are no organisations that will currently encompass support for ALL the shooting disciplines that have a subscription memebership. BASC, NRA, CPSA, etc, etc, etc are all single issue or single discipline organisations and unless I have missed something there is no one organisation lobbying for all, indeed in my view some of the established single sport groups are very dividsive in their support for all firearms ownership, happy to sacrifice others in the name of their cause.

Firearms UK is a very young organisation whose concept was to address the very issue you have highlighted and as it develops it may well become a subscription organisation but unless it gets support for it's lobbying on all firearms ownership it will never progress to the point where it does afford that level of influenece.

Visit the Facebook page and raise your issues there and get a response from the team, you will be well met.

One of the members of Firearms UK was responsible for the circa 20k signature petition against the Airgun Licensing in Scotland issue still under consideration. They are in touch with BASC, CA, NRA, etc and forming those liaisons as we speak. Action takes the form of direct communication with Political Parties, MP's, Groups, Organisations, Trade, Individuals, uncle tom cobly and all. You can address your own concern by adding your views, the more support the more credibility in the mind of the opposing argument?

Clealry I am supportive of their aims, including the return of S5 firearms to S1 and the right to self defence issue, get in touch and make your owm mind up after having spoken with them?

Regards!

[M1Charles1M]

Sendit,

IMO return of S5 firearms to S1 and the right to self defence issue are two distinct issues and I strongly fear than an organisation working in favour of both causes will end-up going nowhere ...

Yes of course they are distinct issues, I simply mentioned them as my personal view not that of Firearms UK. Actually if handguns were back to S1 the second issue of defense almost solves itself, the latter bing lost in the1953 Crime Act!

My absolute personal priority is to protect existing firearms ownership and where possible progress it for certificate holders away from the divisive, fragmented and hopeless situation we have today, not all will agree that is their prerogative, for me it is choice, do not want a handgun, don't buy one, but I feel that if we all would support each other's ability to own and use firarms regardsless of what, when, etc we would be a very powerful voice, we vote and we spend!

[Gaz]

Sendit,

IMO return of S5 firearms to S1 and the right to self defence issue are two distinct issues and I strongly fear than an organisation working in favour of both causes will end-up going nowhere ...

Yes of course they are distinct issues, I simply mentioned them as my personal view not that of Firearms UK. Actually if handguns were back to S1 the second issue of defense almost solves itself, the latter bing lost in the1953 Crime Act!

Here's the problem - we need to actually separate out the divisive issues from the campaign to make sure that what we end up with actually has the support of the shooters it's meant to represent. Otherwise it'll become another Sportsman's Association. Personally I wouldn't care to be represented by a campaign that calls for armed self-defence as I reckon that'll make it far easier for hostile groups such as ACPO and the GCN, and the easily led, such as the mainstream media and the public, to paint us all as a bunch of gun-toting rednecks and dismiss anything useful we actually do say.

We're on the brink of ever greater restrictions and barriers to entry for our sport. Yesterday's Evening Standard carried a police press release about how criminals are apparently exploiting Section 58 to carry guns around, and made some nebulous claims about how they're apparently manufacturing ammo for obsolete calibre antiques.
The Home Office have thankfully rejected ACPO's attempt to lobby for increased fees behind closed doors, to the chagrin of people like Chf Con Andy Marsh, and told them this is a debate that will be had in public - but ACPO are still an influential body and it employs professional lobbyists to achieve its outcomes.
HMIC are talking about undertaking a review of the licensing process next year, and BASC at least are on top of that one.

It's all good and well to have BSSC/BASC/CA/etc lobbying behind closed doors for us, and they doubtless do a lot of good, but it seems that shooters do want a public-facing body which speaks up for us. Maybe Firearms UK could be that body - who knows?

[M1Charles1M]

Gaz, yes I absolutely agree that the only way to address this matter is by seperating the individual issues and addressing each on it's merits. Combining issues is messy and as you rightly suggest easy to lose the objective in the rhetoric against a single aspect of a campaign. Salami tactics! The self defence issue, whilst one I could support, is not a matter for Firearms legislation per sae, it is enabled or disabled elsewhere. The return of handguns to those eligible is my primary wish and I support firearms Uk in that aspiration.

Firearms UK is a broad church as they say and does not limit the argument that participants wish to raise by closing them down or by treating them as not having legitimate views. Their primary objectives are stated as the protection of shooting sports for ALL disciplines, irrespective. What they say that means is it is not determined, or governed by prejudice, class system snobbery, divisive opinion and petty wrangling. They are as already stated trying to unite and represent all the sports and disciplines to protect the rights of those eligible to own and use firearms legitimately.

Firearms UK only became an entity at the beginning of this year I believe, so very early days and they are trying to garner support to lend weight to their cause of 'Unity of Representation' of shooting and to become an accepted, trusted and legitimate player on a divided field. When I stumbled accross them I was soon supportive of what they try to achieve, UNITY!

It really is a pity there is so much division amongst firearms owners and users, as a combined voice we have political influence, we vote and we spend, so make those who want our political support and our money sit up and listen, or I will take my vote and custom elsewhere.

Why when there is circa 500,000 Aigun owners in Scotland can a petition to support the continued, unlicensed, ownership only collect around 21,000 signatures, apathy, division and a willingness to sacrifice others at the vain belief we will be OK, ask yourselves this "HAS IT EVER WORKED?"

The next attack in Scotland will be Shotgun shells to become 'On ticket' and restricted hold & buy, Kenny Macaskill has already said as much, so all those Shotgun owners out there that will not support me owning and using a handgun, will you want my support for any petition to stop the SP restricting your freedoms and sport?