The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Hi lads, me and the dad are off to the classic arms fair to buy some toys in march. I have 303 on the ticket and so does he.

I am pondering a ross m10 and are wondering if any of you have a range report on them please ?

My dad (being a dad) is worried for me as I'm a lefty so my boat race will be directly behind that famous bolt, and would prefer me to get a smle or long lee that I cant phuck up whilst cleaning them !!

DB - PS any of you going ?

Fine rifles, I'm a left handed rifle shooter and shoot a Mk 2 regularly. Sir Charles Ross's family seat Balnagown is just 30 miles south of my Scottish home.

There were a few of his sporting rifles around when I worked the hill as a young lad both in .303" and .280" Ross. Always fancied a .280" Ross but unfortunately the few I've had through my hands were no longer shooters. Had a nice Ross match rifle once but the sights were long since gone. :(

They are accurate rifles if the bore is OK, be prepared for large chambers and brass with the shoulder blown forward on the neck if you reload. Annealing will prolong case life if you have a rifle with enlarged chambers.

The famous missassembled bolt story can be a worry, I've never come a cross one or met anyone who has. In saying that I wouldn't dissassemble the bolt either, I'm aware of my limitations.

A respected highland gun smith who worked on these rifles in his day told me that if the bolt is positioned wrongly in the sleeve then it won't go fully into battery that is what you need to look for. I have also heard but cannot say as a fact that the bolt issue only relates to the 1910 actions and the earlier MK 3s.

dromia wrote:Fine rifles, I'm a left handed rifle shooter and shoot a Mk 2 regularly. Sir Charles Ross's family seat Balnagown is just 30 miles south of my Scottish home.

There were a few of his sporting rifles around when I worked the hill as a young lad both in .303" and .280" Ross. Always fancied a .280" Ross but unfortunately the few I've had through my hands were no longer shooters. Had a nice Ross match rifle once but the sights were long since gone. :(

They are accurate rifles if the bore is OK, be prepared for large chambers and brass with the shoulder blown forward on the neck if you reload. Annealing will prolong case life if you have a rifle with enlarged chambers.

The famous missassembled bolt story can be a worry, I've never come a cross one or met anyone who has. In saying that I wouldn't dissassemble the bolt either, I'm aware of my limitations.

A respected highland gun smith who worked on these rifles in his day told me that if the bolt is positioned wrongly in the sleeve then it won't go fully into battery that is what you need to look for. I have also heard but cannot say as a fact that the bolt issue only relates to the 1910 actions and the earlier MK 3s.

Hi mate many thanks for this. So when you say bolt is positioned wrongly in the sleeve, is this because it has been resassembled wrong, or could it do this happen with a correct assembled bolt ?

chers DB

From what I recall the bolt does not need to be dissambled for this to happen in saying that though you would really need to work at getting the alignments worng its not something that will happen readily.

dromia wrote:From what I recall the bolt does not need to be dissambled for this to happen in saying that though you would really need to work at getting the alignments worng its not something that will happen readily.

Okay thanks mate, not sure i would be using that on an ETR range then !

Incorrect bolt assembly only applied to early MkIIIs. A modification was adopted by unit level armourers that made it impossible, this subsequently retrofitted to all military rifles and built into new factory production. My understanding is that one had to try really hard to get the bolt into the receiver on unmodified rifles, so much so that any sensible person would realise something was wrong - a classic example of Murphy's Law that states if something is possible no matter how unlikely or difficult, somebody stupid enough to do it will eventually turn up!

Earlier models sold to the RCMP (I think the original Mk I) were a different matter due to bolt lug break-up. There are documented cases of injury and death caused by the bolt exiting the receiver into the shooter's face due to metal failure not incorrect assembly. There were lots of other problems with all three basic marks (and tens of sub marks) of the design as Ross never seemed to get a design fully sorted before moving onto his next set of 'improvements'.

I had a very nice original MkIII many years ago with blued metal, not a refurbished one with duller parkerized type finish. It shot very well indeed. The refurbished ones I've seen on the range don't seem to shoot as well as mine did. It did have one problem - the rearsight aperture adjustment worm screw was loose so the point of impact would walk over to one side over a shoot. This seems to be common.


There is a book around that Prospect Books used to stock that is well worth having if you're interested in the design. When I say 'book' it is really more large pamphlet or booklet.


SIR CHARLES ROSS AND HIS RIFLE: Historical Arms Series No. 11
by Phillips, Roger & Jerome J. Knap.

Publisher: Museum Restoration Service

Place Published: Canada

Publish Date: 1969

Description: The identification of all of the models of the Ross rifle that were made from 1897 until the end of World War I are presented including details on the manufacture & development of this extremely accurate sporting & military rifle. 32 pp. with 37 illus., black and white photographs.

Binding: Pictorial Softcover


The point about this rifle, and why the Smallarms Superintendent of the Woolwich Arsenal kept rejecting the various rifles submitted by Ross for British Empire adoption is that it is a service-target rifle. It is big, long and heavy - great for target shooting with a sling, but a poor service rifle. That's before we get into chambering and extraction problems with damaged, dirty or wartime grade ammunition, the propensity for damage to the left hand rear locking lug hitting the bolt-stop hard during extreme pressure combat use, the effect of trench mud etc on the rifle's operation etc etc. The famous wrongly assembled bolt stories were minor but final straws to the tough no-nonsense Canadian troopers on the Western Front who came to hate this rifle as a combat tool. Ironically many of the survivors of WW1 were compulsorily recalled to the colours in WW2 as POW camp guards for the duration - a much resented imposition - and this was aggaravated by their being armed with, you guessed it, the Ross rifle!

Laurie wrote:Incorrect bolt assembly only applied to early MkIIIs. A modification was adopted by unit level armourers that made it impossible, this subsequently retrofitted to all military rifles and built into new factory production. My understanding is that one had to try really hard to get the bolt into the receiver on unmodified rifles, so much so that any sensible person would realise something was wrong - a classic example of Murphy's Law that states if something is possible no matter how unlikely or difficult, somebody stupid enough to do it will eventually turn up!

Earlier models sold to the RCMP (I think the original Mk I) were a different matter due to bolt lug break-up. There are documented cases of injury and death caused by the bolt exiting the receiver into the shooter's face due to metal failure not incorrect assembly. There were lots of other problems with all three basic marks (and tens of sub marks) of the design as Ross never seemed to get a design fully sorted before moving onto his next set of 'improvements'.

I had a very nice original MkIII many years ago with blued metal, not a refurbished one with duller parkerized type finish. It shot very well indeed. The refurbished ones I've seen on the range don't seem to shoot as well as mine did. It did have one problem - the rearsight aperture adjustment worm screw was loose so the point of impact would walk over to one side over a shoot. This seems to be common.


There is a book around that Prospect Books used to stock that is well worth having if you're interested in the design. When I say 'book' it is really more large pamphlet or booklet.


SIR CHARLES ROSS AND HIS RIFLE: Historical Arms Series No. 11
by Phillips, Roger & Jerome J. Knap.

Publisher: Museum Restoration Service

Place Published: Canada

Publish Date: 1969

Description: The identification of all of the models of the Ross rifle that were made from 1897 until the end of World War I are presented including details on the manufacture & development of this extremely accurate sporting & military rifle. 32 pp. with 37 illus., black and white photographs.

Binding: Pictorial Softcover


The point about this rifle, and why the Smallarms Superintendent of the Woolwich Arsenal kept rejecting the various rifles submitted by Ross for British Empire adoption is that it is a service-target rifle. It is big, long and heavy - great for target shooting with a sling, but a poor service rifle. That's before we get into chambering and extraction problems with damaged, dirty or wartime grade ammunition, the propensity for damage to the left hand rear locking lug hitting the bolt-stop hard during extreme pressure combat use, the effect of trench mud etc on the rifle's operation etc etc. The famous wrongly assembled bolt stories were minor but final straws to the tough no-nonsense Canadian troopers on the Western Front who came to hate this rifle as a combat tool. Ironically many of the survivors of WW1 were compulsorily recalled to the colours in WW2 as POW camp guards for the duration - a much resented imposition - and this was aggaravated by their being armed with, you guessed it, the Ross rifle!

Excellent , many thanks for this. Soooooo with bisley coming up on the 27th, and a new home on the horizon, I need to get my toys in quick !

Question is would I be Mad to get a ross m10 ?

dirtbag wrote:Excellent , many thanks for this. Soooooo with bisley coming up on the 27th, and a new home on the horizon, I need to get my toys in quick !

Question is would I be Mad to get a ross m10 ?

If you can find one have it, life is too short

ovenpaa wrote:

dirtbag wrote:Excellent , many thanks for this. Soooooo with bisley coming up on the 27th, and a new home on the horizon, I need to get my toys in quick !

Question is would I be Mad to get a ross m10 ?

If you can find one have it, life is too short

Very true D ,well I have 303 slot on the ticket, so quite a choice I can have. But a ross is something different which is why i'm leaning towards one !

dirtbag wrote:

ovenpaa wrote:

dirtbag wrote:Excellent , many thanks for this. Soooooo with bisley coming up on the 27th, and a new home on the horizon, I need to get my toys in quick !

Question is would I be Mad to get a ross m10 ?

If you can find one have it, life is too short

Very true D ,well I have 303 slot on the ticket, so quite a choice I can have. But a ross is something different which is why i'm leaning towards one !

Okay, since the SLR is now on the horizon,the ross idea will vanish, might just get a SMLE to bang off at ETR's instead