The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Hi guys, I thought I'd post this here as I'm a rimmy man myself (ooh er) but if i've posted in the wrong area, apologies in advance.

Something that just occured to me during reading the GSG5 moderation thread was the matter of carbines.

Now a long time back I had a discussion with someone about carbines, the pro's and con's.

While chopping zee barrel can obviously lessen the forward weight and help balance, and make the firearm easier to handle and aim in close quarters (ratting round pig sheds etc), the biggest concern was accuracy.

One guy argued that the shortened barrel made accuracy poorer as the less barrel, the more unstable the bullet. Another chap argued that the shorter barrel actually helped accuracy, especially in s/a's as the bullet has left the barrel before the effects of recoiling actions kick in and start to shift the gun around.

It all decended into bullet speeds, type of firearm, drag co-efficiencies of the bullet in the barrel, type of shooting and so on and so forth. In the end I got a headache and walked away, the other 2 are probably still there discussing their points (ooh er, two double entendres in one post, on a roll).

So the question is;

Has anyone found that by shortening their barrel they've found accuracy has improved?

I was researching Ruger 14's earlier and this "fix" is a common solution voiced in the USA - however I did not actually find a owner who confirmed accuracy had improved. The believe is that if you take 1-1.5" from the barrel this improves the barrel harmonics - makes it less whippy.

You are referring to .22lr as opposed to a full bore calibre.
It is generally accepted that the longer the barrel on a full bore the higher the velocity. This can equate to better accuracy down range as long as everything else is doing it's part. However there gets a point that it either becomes too heavy or the projectile starts to slow down.
I was amazed to read recently that a .22lr projectile will start to slow down after around 16" or barrel, which would make that the optimal length. I am not sure why manufacturers would waist money on using barrels that are any longer.

Of course you need to make sure that you are legal, don't assume that just because it is for sale through a RFD or that a RFD is doing the work, that it is automatically UK legal.

DM

My M4 has a 13.5" barrel and is accurate out to 600yds on the figure 11s, much to Leeroys disbelieve (he sold it to me!) It was built as a carbine though so I can't comment on how a longer one would perform.

I was talking to my club sec about a Martini-Henry carbine and recoil / accuracy etc. He told me that he thought the carbines had a different barrel twist rate, don't know what to or what from though.

must say, it concerned me a little when people are mentioning 13" barrels etc on actions that aren't that long themselves...

my anny 525 has i think 22" of barrel. the gun itself is quite light, but all that length of barrel makes it too front heavy for my liking.

if it's true that 16" of barrel is the optimal length for a .22lr, then i guess all the 'match barrel' options out there are a false economy.

Why are you concerned?

The LR9 is even smaller at 12 1/2"

Guess I like carbines. razz

jazzyj wrote:must say, it concerned me a little when people are mentioning 13" barrels etc on actions that aren't that long themselves...

if it's true that 16" of barrel is the optimal length for a .22lr, then i guess all the 'match barrel' options out there are a false economy.

Yea - sight radius & heavy target barrels would never be part of the equation for folk using iron sights....

Firstly, how are you defining a Carbine? Short barrel or short OAL?

My G22, with a 20 inch barrel, has a smaller OAL than my 357 Winchester with a 13.75 inch barrel.

Secondly, what is your definition of accuracy?

My M95 Steyr, M91/28 Carcano and Destroyer Carbine are accurate enough for me. The Ishapore I had, with an 18inch barrel was great fun out to 400m with surplus 7.62. All are carbines and all are accurate within reason, but I'm not expecting them to keep up with a target rifle, because they're not meant to.

When I chopped the barrel of my Winchester, I did so, to make it a handier rifle i.e. a carbine. Is is any more accurate now, than when it had the 24 inch barrel? It is for me, because I hated the long barrel and didn't shoot well with it. My wife shot it well with the longer barrel, but she can't see any improvement or loss of accuracy since it was shortened.

Horses for courses - I like carbines and shoot well with them, but I know their limitations and mine.

This is what I've seen from my 15-22 with 16.5 (or so) inch barrel.

I used some older Winchester 40 grain High vel and open sights (which as the target will show I was getting the adjustment dope in at the time with said ammo)




The last three shots landed exactly where the rifle was aimed.

I appreciate this is 17HMR, but all of the other charts I've seen look very similar. The best bang for buck seems to be 16" assuming increasing muzzle velocity aids in accuracy.