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I am thinking of buying a multi stage press for .223 ammunition, I know that Dillon do such things however they are scarcer than scarce things over here, are there any alternatives? Ideally if I could build 500/750 rounds in a day I would be quite happy. This is purely to feed a new habit for shooting at 200/400 yards and only for ammunition for my own use.

Although I can buy a cheap .223 by the bucket load it is not really suited to my needs. Doe anyone have any suggestion for a suitable machine, I prefer it to be European sourced.

i seem to remember a link to a company in Holland who were the main agent for Dillon

There might be a 650 still for sale by one of our members, I'll check next time I'm at the club

Not the greatest of presses but my Lee Load Master progressive would easily churn out around 500 per hour without rushing it, took me about 10mins to do 100 .44 mag last night and that was with feeding bullets by hand.

If I was buying another it would be the Hornady Lock & Load progressive, lovely bit of kit

I wouldn't touch Dillon with a barge pole, their machines seem to work OK but my experience of the company was disastrous so didn't buy a Dillon. Treat me badly me once shame on you, treat me badly twice shame on me. They didn't get the chance to do it a second time.

I have an RCBS Ammomaster which I've been using for nigh on 20 years and has never let me down but it is sadly no longer made, it used to churn out 10s of thousands of pistol rounds but now does 500-1000 rnd batches of 303.

I also have a Hornady LnL AP which I've had since they came out and it has loaded thousands of rounds of rifle ammunition without any problems at all. I would recommend it highly, it is at least the equal of the Dillon 650 at less money and calibre changes are a doddle.

BTW. Progressives are not single stages and need a more attentive approach to their operation, there is a lot going on with each pull of the handle and it all needs to work together so set up time is crucial.

Once it is running then just keep it clean, don't short stroke and don't force anything and all will be well.

The set up time is greater but this is offset by the efficiency of production, a loaded round at each pull of the handle, notice I didn't say speed of production as running a progressive fast is another recipe for disaster.

These presses have a greater learning curve but once mastered then they do what they say, like most things worthwhile the more you put in the more you get out.

All this applies to any progressive.

Only Dillon I ever had was a 1050, I got it in 1995 and managed to load 1000's of .38 SPL before it became redundant. I did for a whle load .223 on it but was not shooting he volume to justify the space it took up. Additionally I was never 100% behind the quality of the ammunition produced in comparison to a Single Stage press, particularly if the case is nearly filled to capacity with powder.

John, My one concern is consistency for an accurate load, the ability to throw to a tenth with spherical powder is one thing however with something like N140 or TR140 is another and +/- 3/10s would not work for me.

I can see the advantages with cowboy ammunition but .223/5,56x45 is something else and this is where some first hand experience is handy.

Agree with Adam 100% on setup, look back at some of my early posts and I was ready to sell the Lee after having major problems setting it up. However, after a bit of searching on YouTube I found some excellent guides and it now runs very nicely.

The only things I don't use it for are resizing and priming as I find the built in priming mechanism pretty poor, I use a single stage press to de-prime and resize then tumble clean the cases before priming with an RCBS Universal Hand Prime tool. Drop the primed cases into the load tubes and away we go smile2

Again, agreeing with Adam, the Hornady L&L AP is the one to go for, if you have anyone going to the US they are around $400 (£270) plus shell plate etc.

John MH wrote: particularly if the case is nearly filled to capacity with powder.

That is interesting, my progressives load very good quality rifle ammunition and for my military rifles I get as good results from the same powder, boolit/bullet, load combination as I do on my single stage presses. I was quiet happy using these loads in competitions out to 900 yards. Obviously if I was loading for 1000 yrd bench rest accuracy then it would be single stage all the way and Target Master/weighed powder loads.

I get more consistent powder drops from my powder measures on a progressive than I do using the same measure by hand, as we all know consistency of operation is the key to accurate powder throwing. I think that the mechanical linkage on the progressives makes for a more consistent drop smoothing out any small vagrancies of operation, that is how explain my consistent results until someone comes along with a better theory.

I don't know if this is applicable as I've only used other peoples Dillons but reading around, the powder measure seems to be regarded as the poorest part of the Dillon set up, I'm not saying that it doesn't work it just seems to be old shotgun powder measure technology and things have moved on.

Anyway, as always, you pays your money and you takes your choice.