CWGC Grave.

[Jenks]

Now that my work on the two graves is all but complete, My mind has turned back to my great uncle William Sanders Killed in action with the 1/4th Leicestershire Regt. At the Battle of Loos, his battalion was part of the 138th brigade of the 46th North Midland Division. On the day he died 13th October 1915 They were charged with attacking the Hohenzollern Redoubt at Auchy les Mines. As his body was believed never to have been found, he is commemorated on a wall at 'Dud Corner Cemetery' Lens. Well recently I came across a document that proves that he was found and was buried on the battlefield (presumably temporarily)



This is where it gets a bit complicated (for me that is) On the document it is stated

Reported buried by OC 1st Kings L'pool regt. and goes on to give the coordinates of the site of the burial as:

1000 yards S of 'Fosse de Bethune No 8' & 400 yards S of 'Big Willie'

Here is a map showing the two positions mentioned in 1915.



Assuming the S in the coordinates to mean south and using the scale indicated on the map it doesn't add up.

It is also further complicated by the fact that William’s surname on the casualty record is misspelt as SAUNDERS not SANDERS this mistake is the name on his two WW1 medals and on the wall of the cemetery. However his Transvaal medal has his correct Name and in all cases his regimental number is correct. As is his name on his Death Penny.

Now that my work on the two graves is all but complete, My mind has turned back to my great uncle William Sanders Killed in action with the 1/4th Leicestershire Regt. At the Battle of Loos his battalion was part of the 138th brigade of the 46th North Midland Division. On the day he died 13th October 1915 They were charged with attacking the Hohenzollern Redoubt at Auchy les Mines. As hi body was never found, he is commemorated on a wall at 'Dud Corner Cemetery' Lens. Well recently I came across a document that proves that he was found and buried on the battle field (presumably temporarily)


This is where it gets a bit complicated (for me that is) On the document it is stated

Reported buried by OC 1st Kings L'pool regt. and goes on to give the coordinates of the site of the burial as:

1000 yards S of 'Fosse de Bethune No 8' & 400 yards S of 'Big Willie'

Here is a map showing the two positions mentioned in 1915.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hohen ... 15_map.jpg

Assuming the S in the coordinates to mean south and using the scale indicated on the map it doesn't add up.

It is also further coplicated by the fact that William’s surname on the casualty record is misspelt as SAUNDERS not SANDERS this mistake is the name on his two WW1 medals and on the wall of the cemetery. However his Transval medal has his correct Name and in all cases his regimental number is correct. As is his name on his Death Penny.



My dilemma now is what do I do next? Should I just forget it, I am the only one in the family who knows or cares anything about him. If I do try and find out more how do I proceed? Has anyone had experience in this area. Suggestion and advice greatly appreciated.

Jenks

[Jenks]

Sorry about the cock up with the text I had problems with the copying & pasting the images somehow I managed to double paste parts of the text I don't know how I didn't notice it Doh!


Jenks

[Chuck]

jenks, I agree with your sentiments. I spent hours trekking round two graveyards looking for the place where my grandfather and mother were laid (fathers side). Absolute disgrace, what with vandalism, weather and sheer lack of interest by the council. As for a map of the cemetery "yes sir, that'll be £65" WHIT!! . OFF!

As for the family, that's a tricky one, but maybe they just do not know he's there, amazing how things can get lost or disregarded until later in ife - and then it's too late to ask questions of those who may well know.

[Jenks]

Chuck…

As for the family, that's a tricky one, but maybe they just do not know he's there, amazing how things can get lost or disregarded until later in life - and then it's too late to ask questions of those who may well know.

Sadly those in the family who might have cared are now all dead. The remaining members of the family are not interested. I remember talking to my mother shortly after my Dad had died about uncle William and her Dad, who also fought at Loos aged 16-17 . I mentioned The CO of the 1/4th Leics Regt. at Loos. She said that my Dad had attended a talk given by Colonel Edmund Martin and had even had a chat with him after the talk. I was stunned by that news . Talk about it being too late. I wonder what my Dad might have been able to tell me if only I had talked to him more about ww1. And of course if only I had talked to my grand dad . But of course I didn't .Like the rest of the family until relatively recent times I suppose I too, didn't care enough. Now I do I fear it is too late to learn much more than I know now.

Colonel R.E. Martin.


http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/HomeS ... iment.html

[Chuck]

isn't that the way though jenks.

my grandmothers photo/scrap album sat on a shelf for years, I never paid attention to it other than a cursory glance.

After the old fella died I looked more closely, a time machine by any other name. Post cards written 1915-ish when she was a lass showing the social etiquette of the time. picture cards showing people in Victorian dress promenading in Ayr. Addresses that I could have visited that are now demolished 9thogh the church where old grandfather was married I remember but never knew till it was gone and replaced with slums and eyesores. I am sure that one photo is my great great grandmother. Photos of my great grandmother (god she looked a BIG scary woman) and grandfather (can see me in him), grandfather in his kilt when was in the BEF in France, oh and trench art he made too. All tell a story that won't have all the pages in it.

I actually worked for 18 months in an area 100 yards from where the old fella was born, not that he ever mentioned it.

I suppose we all find that though Jenks, for a combination of reasons I never wanted to know, until now.

[Jenks]

A couple of articles highlighting the work of the CWGC.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... raves.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 80551.html


Jenks

[Jenks]

An interesting article on Commonwealth war graves particularly pertinent to my experience:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... idden.html


From linked article

It doesn’t matter where or how they died. We should remember them all this weekend. From the Western Front to** that single slab of bright Portland stone somewhere in your local churchyard,** they gave their tomorrows for our today.

** And the uncared for slab of Portland stone too.**



Jenks

[Chuck]

Every one of those men who died for this country have been betrayed by the evil political class. None of those men would recognize Britain as it is today, and every one of them would be turning in their graves.

From the comments. We just don't care, it's the British way, we have heroes for short time then cover them over for the next "hero"!

These people gave all and we just don't care -especially current governments!

I visited the War Cemeteries at Katchanaburi, Thailand when I was at the Kwai bridge, immaculately kept by the locals - though seemingly the sites for the locals who were slaughtered in possibly higher numbers are not so well kept!

Maybe the fact that overseas theatres like France (Normandy) and Burmah have been given "cult status" by the movie industry has something to do with this?

[Jenks]

Chuck..

I visited the War Cemeteries at Katchanaburi, Thailand when I was at the Kwai bridge, immaculately kept by the locals - though seemingly the sites for the locals who were slaughtered in possibly higher numbers are not so well kept!

The CWGC employ professional gardeners to tend their cemeteries hence they are usually immaculate. This is not the case for individual graves in municipal cemeteries. They are inspected once every two years by the commision, and the Portland headstone is cleaned with a biocide. As long as the occupants name is legible then the commision is satisfied. Sadly they take no responsibility for the actual condition of the grave.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 026-34.htm

Yesterday I went across and tidied up our two graves and was pleased to notice another little cross of remembrance upon the grave of L/Cpl Smith. I wonder if any of those people attending today's service of remembrance will wander down to the graves to pay their respects. I think just about everyone in the village will now know of their existence.


Jenks

[Chuck]

Morning Jenks, I( was under the impression that that particular site was tended by locals voluntarily and not at anyone's behest. SO much for tour guides then eh..

Either way those in council run cemeteries should be equally tidy. Once upon a time we have money to create jobs, I am sure someone somewhere would be happy doing that job, even for minimum wage.

It is a crying shame that we value their sacrifice so little that we cannot keep that wee bit of ground tidy.