Badger cull to go ahead

[tackb]

bloody environmentalists.

Normally people call me tree hugger...

Oh crap ! I suppose you'll be campaigning to take my chainsaw/axe of me now!

[Christel]

bloody environmentalists.

Normally people call me tree hugger...

Oh crap ! I suppose you'll be campaigning to take my chainsaw/axe of me now!

Oh tackb, do have some faith :lol:

[Jenks]

http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/ ... story.html

Interesting to read the different point of views, especially in this case where both point of views come from farmers.

Christel..

Thanks for the links, very interesting. I have read so much about the cull over the last few days. nothing I have read has changed my mind. I am still in favour of it. In fact I don't think it is going to go far enough. I agree the farmers could do a lot more regarding biosecurity etc. But we still have a ludicrous situation where valuable domesticated animals are becoming infected and all those that are, are immediately destroyed. Yet the wild animals that are a significant factor in spreading the disease remain uncontrolled this surely is lunacy. A cull could work This little snippet if true indicates just that

"The Randomised Badger Culling Trial in 2000 clearly demonstrated a 30 to 40 per cent reduction in bovine TB which is still persisting.

earlier in this post I said that ''I don't think it is going to go far enough.'' (the cull that is)
I believe that in a clearly designated area with a high density of cattle the the Badger should be totally eradicated. draconian some might say. But as with the present proposed cull this would be for a trial period . At the same time farmers should be required, by legislation and grant aid if necessary to meet high standards of biosecurity. My proposal would only apply to very specific areas and for a specific time five/ ten years what ever is considered necessary to get a clear result. Where I live the farming is largely arable and as far as I am aware Badgers pose no problems.
I think you said earlier that DEFA were taking the easy way out. I don't understand what is wrong with that.

Once again I remind you the Badger is not an endangered species.

Jenks

[Jenks]

Jenks - I'd be more likely to give you opinion credence if you stopped citing the opinion of the Government, farmers or mad old women.....

Dougan..

or mad old women..

Although you don't mention her by name, I think it fair to assume you are referring to Clarissa Dickson Wright. I'm a little puzzled at you apparent hatred of her. In the article about her that I linked to, not once did she say that she was in favour of a badger cull, she merely suggested that it might be preferable to eat them rather than discard them to landfill.

I would also like to point out that at the age of twenty one she passed the necessary exams and became the youngest barrister this country has ever had. She has an I.Q. of 169 so stupid she is not. She travels extensively and has many friends from all walks of life. Although I think of her as a friend, acquaintance would probably be a mor accurate description. I frequently share a cup of coffee with her when she visits a mutual friend. She is a true country woman with a considerable knowledge of country matters enjoying field sports. Perhaps another reason you dislike her. She is a wit and raconteur I'm sure were you to spend a little time in her company you would probably change your opinion of her.

Jenks

Hate is a strong word, and wrong in this instance - In the past I may well have liked to have met her...but not now.

She didn't say she was in favor of the cull, and she didn't say she was against it either - that's because like you say, she's quite intelligent...she was well aware of how controversial the subject is, and used it for her own promotional purposes....

...If you don't think that she approached her usual press contacts, and said something along the lines of 'I'll give you a nice little story if you mention my new book', then you're naive...

Anyway you've clearly been dazzled by her obvious charm and beauty, so I won't upset you with further comment on her - so I'll re-phrase the last sentence of my previous post...

... I'd be more likely to give you opinion credence if you stopped citing just the opinions of the Government, farmers or those with a commercial interest.[/quote]

Dougan..

Anyway you've clearly been dazzled by her obvious charm and beauty

That is a particularly crass and ungallant thing to say.


Jenks

[meles meles]

Once again I remind you the Badger is not an endangered species.

Jenks

It feels like it to us !

[meles meles]

...if we had that many badgers on the loose I would actively encourage a cull because that is simply not sustainable nor healthy for its surroundings.

What number of oomans does there need to be on the planet afore we can deploy the same argument and begin our own programme of pesticide?

[Christel]

...if we had that many badgers on the loose I would actively encourage a cull because that is simply not sustainable nor healthy for its surroundings.

What number of oomans does there need to be on the planet afore we can deploy the same argument and begin our own programme of pesticide?

That number has been reached already if you ask me tongueout

[Dougan]

Right, this is going round in circles - we can all continue to site the evidence that supports our personal opinion, and continue to argue the side issues like farming practices...but none of the evidence is conclusive...so lets boil it down to basic fact.

Jenks - using the higher figures you quoted - a 30 - 40% reduction in bTB is still not a solution - to work, a cull would need to be expanded out nationwide, which would mean killing closer to a million badgers....so, when you keep saying that badgers are not endangered...they could very well end up being so at the end of a successful cull...which is what you are suggesting.

Two possible solutions, that would actually work, are to find an oral vaccination for badgers (as individual injecting is inefficient), or to find a better bTB test for cattle that won't be made ineffective by the BCG vaccine....However to do the necessary research and development would be costly to the taxpayer.

So this is what it boils down to...

I value the badger enough that I would be happy to see (more happy than some of the other places it goes) my tax being used for developing a solution that works for farmers, but doesn't involve a cull.

You don't value the badger enough to see your tax money spent on an expensive solution, and would would rather see them killed in hundreds of thousands instead.

So that's it...by our own values, we are both right....

[Dougan]

Anyway you've clearly been dazzled by her obvious charm and beauty

That is a particularly crass and ungallant thing to say.


Jenks

You don't seem to be getting this either - I have stated quite clearly why I believe she made the story, and what I think of that....

.....so why would I care about being crass and ungallant about her?

[Jenks]

Christel..

It seems that in the long term vaccination in the wild population of badgers may become viable. But some culling to control Badger transmitted bTB may still be necessary..

Interesting article here..

http://www.bovinetb.info/docs/tuberculo ... nation.pdf

From the linked article

Based on these studies, the Irish
government has instigated a strategy of focused (reactive) culling of infected
badgers to lower the density of infection in the badger population. This serves
to limit the opportunity for transmission of infection to cattle and to decrease
the economic impact of the disease in cattle. The decision to cull is made
following an epidemiologic investigation of the possible causes of a breakdown
in a cattle herd. If badgers are identified as the probable source of infection,
then the badgers in the immediate area (within 1 km of the farm) are culled.
This is an interim strategy while research on alternative control strategies,
including vaccination of badgers, is undertaken. Vaccination is an attractive
control option for badgers because, if shown to be effective, it would reduce
the burden of infection in this species and break the transmission cycle to
cattle without provoking conservation and social concerns.

Once again I suggest that until a workable, viable, and deliverable vaccine is developed and proven to be effective. Culling along the lines I proposed in my post above is IMHO the logical way to go.

Jenks