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Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:33 pm
by walesdave
My current end client is a police force (think the biggest in the UK).
If I remember correctly I heard they only recoup about 5% of the costs of policing football matches - the remaining 95% is funded by the force.
As far as I remember, only the cost of policing inside the stadium is recoverable, any policing outside the grounds, in the local town centres, on the trains / transport links, after match pub policing etc. are borne by the force and then us, the taxpayer.
As I don't give a flying monkeys about football, I suggest a petition is started to put £200 onto the cost of each match ticket to cover the cost of policing which has zero benefit to myself or most of the rest of society!
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:27 pm
by 1066
Policing the Notting Hill carnival last year cost £5.6 million. Can't say I got much benefit from that myself.
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 12:11 am
by Alpha1
Why is Durhams costs so much higher than every one elses at £521.99 per certificate. I am in dispute with Durham and they are not even my licencing authority its a simple matter that could be resolved with a phone call its been going on for months. It does not look to be resolved any time soon.
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 7:17 am
by Pippin89
1066 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:07 am
Until the police can be trusted to all be singing from the same sheet this would just be another way to shaft us. From this recent survey it shows Humberside have about 10 staff for FAC/SC processing for 13,000 certificates at an average cost of £42 per certificate - Durham have 14 staff for 8,000 certificates at an average cost of £520 each.
Which end of the scale do you think we would be charged?
This is pretty damning in itself. Because one of three things has happened to produce such wildly different figures:
- Some counties are running massively inefficiently compared to others
- Some counties are purposely inflating their numbers because they want to see an end to it all
- Some accountants just can't count!
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:50 am
by bradaz11
i like that employing 3 members of staff costs more than 27 or 24 (cleveland vs BCH and essex)
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:58 am
by 1066
This just goes to show how little we could rely on any self assessed, inhouse costing procedure. These are, of course, the selected figures that are fed to, and seized on by the Media, MP's and groups such as the GCN.
Kent indicate they have 31 staff and are turning a FAC grant round in 59 days, where I believe the reality to be at least double or treble that.
I'm surprised that the Gun traders associations don't hire an accountant and use the freedom of information system to pick these figures apart, it's just too much to hope our shooting associations would actually do something.
Also interesting to note that half the forces didn't supply any figures - I wounder what they would reveal.
Reminds me of Colin Greenwoods (Yorkshire Police Inspector) excellent book on Gun Control written '60- early '70's, where he found huge disparity in the cost involved in issuing certificates, some forces including depreciation of the building and other such creative accounting being used.
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 11:14 am
by MistAgain
1066 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 10:58 am
This just goes to show how little we could rely on any self assessed, inhouse costing procedure. These are, of course, the selected figures that are fed to, and seized on by the Media, MP's and groups such as the GCN.
Kent indicate they have 31 staff and are turning a FAC grant round in 59 days, where I believe the reality to be at least double or treble that.
I'm surprised that the Gun traders associations don't hire an accountant and use the freedom of information system to pick these figures apart, it's just too much to hope our shooting associations would actually do something.
Also interesting to note that half the forces didn't supply any figures - I wounder what they would reveal.
Reminds me of Colin Greenwoods (Yorkshire Police Inspector) excellent book on Gun Control written '60- early '70's, where he found huge disparity in the cost involved in issuing certificates, some forces including depreciation of the building and other such creative accounting being used.
The GTA , like BASC will never stand up for the shooting community if it means butting heads with the government or a police force .
As for Colin Greenwood finding dodgy costs being included by the police , it was one of the big accountancy companies who were allowed to audit some of the police costings .
They did find depreciation of buildings , and also cost of new carpets for one police HQ . And Colin published the facts whenever he could .
Of course even back then the national bodies didnt like Colin showing how useless they were .
I dread to think what Merseysides next costing will be , a nice new police HQ , and nice state of the art high security section in a new build for storing firearms , and all the court costs they have had in the past year or so .
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:33 pm
by artiglio
1066, I don’t know about grants but i had a renewal in Feb 2022, submitted the paperwork as requested and I had the new cert in my hand 2 weeks before the expiry date of the old.
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:57 pm
by 1066
artiglio wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:33 pm
1066, I don’t know about grants but i had a renewal in Feb 2022, submitted the paperwork as requested and I had the new cert in my hand 2 weeks before the expiry date of the old.
I must say I have no complaints about Sussex renewals or variations over the last 5 years or so, variations often within a week, however a couple of chaps at my local club (Kent) have waited around 6 months for a very straight forward grant for basic club shooting.
Three members of my other club have had to lodge their rifles with an RFD where their certificates have expired before renewal even though applying 12 weeks early.
Re: Here we go again - Starmer says need to tighten gun laws
Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2023 8:43 am
by Pippin89
1066 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:57 pm
artiglio wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 4:33 pm
1066, I don’t know about grants but i had a renewal in Feb 2022, submitted the paperwork as requested and I had the new cert in my hand 2 weeks before the expiry date of the old.
I must say I have no complaints about Sussex renewals or variations over the last 5 years or so, variations often within a week, however a couple of chaps at my local club (Kent) have waited around 6 months for a very straight forward grant for basic club shooting.
Three members of my other club have had to lodge their rifles with an RFD where their certificates have expired before renewal even though applying 12 weeks early.
Sussex turned my latest variation around in a day. Can't argue with that at all.