Could cast boolits solve the problem?

[Alpha1]

I never had much look with Swedish mausers mainly because of the sights they are a fine rifle when used over the distances they are designed for with good ammo. But cast boolits were all ways a challenge I even went as far as changing the rear sight for a mojo aperture that helped. I have had different versions both with aperture soderin sights and the normal open sights. They were fun but we're eventually sold to finance other toys. I still have moulds and sizers some were. If I am going to use cast I prefer to scope the rifle. Most of my cast shooting nowadays is done with reduced loads indoors. Keep trying you are a lot further along the learning curve than you were a few weeks ago.

[Dougan]

Cheers Alpha - I've found that a scout scope works really well on the Swedish; but want to shoot it in comps with the original sights - First I need to find the right boolit and load, which I reckon will take time...then I can set the sights up for that load and stick to it.

[Dougan]

On the Swede here is another post I made on another forum recently responding to someone starting out on the Swede journey.

"The problem with the Swedes and cast boolits is the fast twist and long skinny bullets easily deformed before they get fully into the rifling and supported.

So long as you keep your velocities to under 1800 fps you should be allright, you will just need to see what velocity works in your gun before accuracy dissapears.

Also getting good boolit fit to the freebore is a sound approach and an impact cast will help you there.

Getting a mould that drops a good sized boolit used to be a challenge although in my Swedes the Lyman 266455, 266469 and 266673 moulds all shoot well in my Swedes dropping at .266 which is undersize for my rifles but then I'm only driving them at 1600 fps.

NOE have some good 269 designs that work well for me as do my now discontinued BRP 6.5 moulds.

NOE have a GB discussion on their forum for a version of the 266469 which should be going live in the not too distant future. So plenty of good moulds to choose from there.

For these velocities I use VV N10, VV N120, Ramshot Enforcer or any other powder with a similar burning rate, as always use published data and work up you loads for your guns."

I did start at 16 gns of N120, which gave and average velocity of 1620 fps, but the spread was 57 fps; which is why I've concentrated on the 18 gn load, as although it was approaching 1800 fps it had the best spread of 19...

I'll take you're advice though and work back down - I've decided to use my normal jacketed round for the Trafalgar...I haven't got the time to do everything necessary to sort the Swede in the next 6 weeks; so it'll make a good winter project...I've got access to a 100 yard indoor range, so can take my time and do it properly...might even try a chamber cast...

[dromia]

Strangely enough I have found extreme spread to be pretty meaningless on its own.

As we all know striving for consistency is what good accurate handloading and shooting is all about and a low extreme spread should indicate a consistent load however on its own it doesn't always mean accuracy.

From my experience with up to 2000 fps cast boolit loads the lowest extreme spread loads are rarely the most accurate, some of my most accurate loads have extreme spreads of 30-40 fps.

For me the right velocity(s) for the rifle trumps extreme spread, the load with the lowest extreme spread might not be the one that develops the best velocity for that rifle and at ranges out to say 600 yrds the velocity range that extreme spreads give doesn't make that much of a difference on the target. Obviously the further we go out then the greater we will notice the effects of velocity variations on the target.

When I'm working up a load I firstly look for the velocity points that give me best accuracy on the target and then work on reducing the extreme spread of these loads within the optimal velocity range.

Reloading books like Lyman only test their loads for velocity and pressure not for group size on a target, their recommendations for accurate loads are only theoretical based on velocity and consistency, low extreme spread. We can do better as we can shoot for group and as we always know our best feedback comes from the target so that should be your starting point.

Theory and practice do not always align as we might expect. Especially in load development and shooting where there are so many variables effecting the outcome, we need to be able to separate the wood from the trees. That is where bench time and trigger time give us the experience to be able to do this. That is the joy of shooting and hand loading it rarely gives instant gratification but working at it, learning and applying that which we have learnt make the rewards all the more precious.

[Blu]

There is something else that can affect accuracy and I found it so with the Swede 96. Over torquing the action screws if the rifle has ever been stripped down for cleaning can throw accuracy all to hell. I was having accuracy problems with my Swede until a gunsmith mate told me about the over torquing issue.

So I loosened off the action screws and torqued them back up to 30lbs/inch. Started shooting from there out to a hundred yards zero and gradually increased the torque as I shot with the rifle scoped. The sweet spot for that particular rifle turned out to be 35lbs/inch torque, the action wasn't loose in the stock and was still nice and tight when I finished shooting.

I was getting under an inch groups using 139 grain bullets by the time I was finished. Fair enough I was shooting FMJ bullets but even so, shooting with cast bullets or jacketed it may well be something else worth consideration.

Blu

[dromia]

Good point Blu but as far as I understand it the OPs Swede performs fine with jacketed.

[Blu]

Dromia, couldn't hurt for Dougan to loosen off the action and then slowly torque back up again, who knows, stranger things and WTF moments have happened when out there on the range. As we both know, cast and jacketed bullets behave differently when travelling down that barrel.

Blu

[Dougan]

Cheers for the advice, but I've never stripped it down that far - It shoots so well; in good conditions, rested and with a scout scope on I can hold the bulls-eye all day long...and get a real kick from being able to do that with a rifle that's 108 years old.

But it wasn't easy to get the right load with jackets either - It doesn't like 'good' bullets (SMKs and Laps) and prefers the PPU ones that PPU use in their factory ammo (which it also shoots well) - Also I don't think the chamber is exactly 'SAAMI specs'...so I really do need to do a cast (even if it's just to stop Adam nagging me razz )...

One of the best things about the rifle is the barrel...it looks like a new modern one; which is why I think it shoots so well - This is the main reason for trying boolits in this rifle (my SMLE is more out of necessity) because if we can get the same results with a cast load, then we can enjoy lots more use without worrying about shooting it out.

[Blu]

Dougan,

It doesn't like 'good' bullets (SMKs and Laps) and prefers the PPU ones that PPU use in their factory ammo

Yes I found exactly the same thing with my Swede. Didn't like the so called premium bullets but loved PPU 139 grainers over Reloader 22. Constantly hits bull all day long with the PPU bullets.

Blu

[Dougan]

Well the question was could cast boolits solve the problem - this referred to the fact that I started noticing some deterioration of the barrel on my SMLE, so thought of switching to cast boolits to preserve the original barrel rather than re-barrel the rifle - The test was always going to be the Trafalgar meeting; as the loads would have to perform as well as my jacketed ones had in previous years...

...So how did they do?

Having found some loads (20 and 21 gn of VN120 at 1545 and 1614 fps) that shot OK, I then found that they would fit in the magazine - I only had 2 more opportunities to test them before the Trafalgar...

...the new seating depth for the boolit I'm using sort of chose its self, as there was a depth that allowed them to fit the magazine and still keep the gas check in the neck of the case (I cut a cross section out of a prepared case to make sure), and also just covers the first lube strip...

...on the first test they were no good with little consistent grouping - I had stuck to the previous powder loads, and the rifle clearly didn't like the boolit at the increased velocity caused by the deeper seating depth (the previous 'seated out' ones hadn't shot well with more than 21 gns) - For the last test I tried 18 and 19 gns...it wasn't the best day conditions-wise for testing, but they didn't seem too bad; and I decided to go with the 19s for the meeting.

In the precision I managed a 40 (a few points less than usual, and 5 points less than with my Mauser the previous day) with the new loads - But I can't blame the cast boolits for this, as after the last testing I had tried to adjust my fore-sight at home from memory and rough calculation...this was a big mistake, as I ended up with the foresight even further off zero, but in the other direction ( ) - This then made things difficult in the snaps, where I was having to aim off into the sand; and with my eyes not being what they used to be was very tricky on an overcast day...it's probably the worst I've ever shot in the snaps...

...but as I say I can't blame it on the boolits - I clearly haven't found just the right load yet, and didn't have the time to zero and practice properly with the final load...

...I also can't blame the barrel, as I took the opportunity at the meeting to get it checked by a couple of different people...they both said the same thing; which was that it wasn't as bad as I though, and that there was no reason why it shouldn't shoot OK...which is great news...

...now knowing that the barrel isn't as bad as I thought, I could give up and go back to jackets, but that also means that there's no reason why it shouldn't shoot cast boolits well...so as I've enjoyed the learning curve so far, I want to see it through, I'm going to go back to the drawing board; do a cast and a better slugging, some more chronoing etc. and persevere with the project...

...surely a full year should be enough time to get it right for the next Trafalgar razz