The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Oh I think it got to the "prat" and "groundless theories" stage when you started using terms such as
Helping RFD with his finances ( that one wins the prize for funniest )
Investing
Depositing.
Crowd funding.

If you dont want to debate - dont reply. You keep saying you have said all you are going to say but then come back..............

In the meantime - I will rely on what is stated in primary legislation until such time as it is repealed or case law exists. And I will carry on debating even if it infuriates you - thats just an added bonus

You crack on with your crowd funding or whatever todays term is ;-)

Breacher, since I discovered Yoga I never ever get infuriate. I view getting infuriated as an utterly futile exercise. I am merely bemused when people waste their time talking without actually grasping their subject & worst make a concerted effort to remain ignorant. Whether that matches your definition of "prat" and should apply to you is your concern. I was merely refering to me trying not being one

BTW, you still have not told us if you are actually a bona fide RFD tempted ? or, if are you interested into buying ammo that way ? or explain the source of your fascination for the topic.

In the meantime - I will rely on what is stated in primary legislation until such time as it is repealed or case law exists.

It is good to see that there are those amongst us who are happy to comply completly with our laws . clapclap

Based on my interpretation of the legislation I would not be a "bona fide" RFD if I offered this service. The gift voucher "get around" was the closest I saw to being plausible.

I am glad you are not infuriated - just a bit of banter mate.

Not exactly fascinated - just enjoying the debate.

As to buying - I can buy enough .223 to last over 2 yrs of CSR and enough .308 to last 1-2 years of CSR - my .22 allowance would last 4 years !! Thats far enough in advance for me.

And I suspect the £10-12 per 100 I get back for the cases is more than I would save anyway with a bulk buying scheme so the actual cost per 100 is not too bad as it is.

Are you a RFD with potentially enuf storage space to be able to "offer that service" ?

Do you have any recognized legal qualifications in this field ?
If so, tell us more about it as then, I'd be interested in your opinion. If not, then I'll stick to the one I received.

So far, the most interesting part is that, you have no need to buy ammo in bulk which I am glad for you, but again, what you save by selling brass is really quite irrelevant... oh ... yes, and you enjoy a "debate" based on your "interpretation", more than on the legality of it.

froggy wrote:Are you a RFD with potentially enuf storage space to be able to "offer that service" ?

Do you have any recognized legal qualifications in this field ?
If so, tell us more about it as then, I'd be interested in your opinion. If not, then I'll stick to the one I received.

So far, the most interesting part is that, you have no need to buy ammo in bulk which I am glad for you, but again, what you save by selling brass is really quite irrelevant... oh ... yes, and you enjoy a "debate" based on your "interpretation", more than on the legality of it.

I am not a RFD.

Qualifications ? 16 years experience in Police - have read a lot of legislation, interpreted and made a few decisions to charge ( or not ) in that time.

And on the other side of the fence - my FAC was revoked in 2007. I appealed and defended myself at Crown Court. Against a barrister. The Judge agreed with my interpretation ( and threw out the Police interpretation ) upon which the revocation hinged. To date I am the ONLY person to defend themselves and win a FAC revocation case in Hertfordshire and possible the UK according to one of the countries top barristers who later contacted me about a similar case !

So, I would say I have a somewhat proven record in interpreting firearms legislation.

Then a few years working for a Sec 5 dealer who liked to "push the envelope" - rather like this scenario actually ! And he ended up in prison - I was working for him at the time and was privvy to a lot of information which has given me an insight into the whole sorry affair.

As to my savings - I was merely pointing out that there are easier ways to knock a few pounds off the cost of ammo

My FLU sees no problem with doing this. They simply advise never acquire or possess above your FAC ammo allocation at any time when you collect any batch.

Crack on order 5000 & collect it in 500 lumps.

With 25 years experience in the Criminal Justice system and on the basis of s1(b) of the 1968 Act, I agree with Brian. To pay (whatever the mechanism used) for a job lot of ammunition, specifically for an RFD to hold specifically for you, over and above the limits specified on your FAC, is illegal.

But the law is the reason that even a really crap barrister can still make £500 a day...

Breacher, so, bottom line, you are not a RFD, you don't need to buy ammo in bulk and you actually have no recognised legal qualifications . BTW, I hold a (French) law degree and I still concider myself ignorant in the matter that concern us here.

Sim, agree, it is crucial not to have a commercially acceptable of title of property over the full amount as that would implies having "bought" over the limit which would, of course, be illegal. A commercial lawer will confim that such title is usually passed over only when the goods are paid in full.
The advise I received is that a RFD leaving some part of his stock for some clients is a legal private matter between him & his client as long as the client doesnt have possession or acess to it.

It's a weird one, certainly.

If we were to go from primary legislation alone, it would invariably be illegal to do what Monsieur le Frog is suggesting. However, It would therefore also be an issue if anyone in the UK Legally Purchased a Section 5 firearm in a different country, for use in a different country and stored in a different county if all of this information was hinged purely on the word purchase.

We know this to not be the case.

As Froggy has mentioned, and the part that is most pertinent to us shooters, is that access or possession of the quantity above our limit is what would see us fall foul of the law. Any prosecution trying to prosecute over earmarked stock on a nod and a handshake would be flaky at best, and in all honesty a waste of everyones time and money.

That's not to say it's not possible, but it is highly in-probable.

In regards to a fall-out between RFD and customer, a simple contract along the lines of "I, RFD, will supply [Customer] a maximum of X rounds at Y price per round from batch Z".

Both customer (Via FAC) and RFD via ammunition log will then be able to track total number of rounds signed over to possess, and charged to account, or voucher or whatever way you want to work around the law to feel comfortable that you could argue it in a court of law, if it ever came to that.