A return of Handguns, a discussion.

[joe]

I know but obviously a naughty 5 year old me isn't going to be too au fait with safety rules.

I remember it was in a case a bit like a record case and I thought I would help Daddy by carrying it for him - I got a good slapping and shouted at. Probably my first taste of injustice

I was only trying to help . . . odd how certain things stick in the memory.

I bet that was the first of many spankings you got naughty girl hehe :)

[Gaz]

I bet that was the first of many spankings you got naughty girl hehe :)

wtfwtf




I've read this thread with interest. Seems to me that shooting is its own worst enemy, inasmuch as there are still too many old buggers who think the world as it was in the 1980s is the world we live in today, and no amount of reality is going to shake that viewpoint come hell, high water or repeal of the two '97 Acts. This is the sort of person who moans at people on the ranges for wearing the "wrong" jacket or using the "wrong" type of firearms. Frankly I'd love to see all of these people stripped of their FACs and sent on their way with several fleas in their ears.

The other big problem is that none of our NGBs is a single, unified, public-facing voice for shooting. "British Shooting" seems to be a management consultant's wet dream, with a website full of impenetrable bull that bears as much relation to my hobby as the US NRA. The NRA/NSRA/CPSA/etc are all discipline governing bodies, and despite the history I think that's what we really need to identify. These bodies, on the whole, exist to administer types of shooting, not to speak to government on behalf of shooting as a whole. The discipline governing bodies seem to leave that to the likes of BASC and the CA, who really only care about shotguns and single-shot scoped rifles, reflecting what their own memberships' core interests are.

Judging by forum chat here and elsewhere, what shooters want to see is a single unified campaigning body like the US NRA-ILA. Yet the discipline governing bodies simply aren't set up to do this and don't have the money to throw at political campaigning. The CA and BASC do, and do valuable work on behalf of shooters as a result, but ultimately defending target shooting and pushing for things like pistols just aren't their core purpose - they do a lot more in addition to that.

I don't have an answer. The Sportsman's Association seems to have been an attempt at creating that unified body and it's apparently dead now. Anyone got any other ideas?

[Mike357]

Gaz, I guess the first hurdle would be funding. Such a body would need a huge amount of cash up front before it formed an effective organisation. That would n't come from subscriptions as we have seen on this thread and elsewhere that they want results first before joining. Rock and a hard place?

[froggy]

Re-

I recently asked on this forum which organisation was supposed to represent & defend the interests of the shooting community. Did not get a lot or very positive answers....

I am not being funny but out of all people, I would have thought that you lot " post 97 mass confiscation" having been biten pretty badly would have wise-up and thought about protecting yourself...

I guess the first hurdle would be funding Really ? All of us pay anything between £ 150/200 per year in club fees, a fair amount on ammo and have thousands of pounds worth of guns into our safes... (please dont tell my wife...). So far nobody, a mean nobody has knocked on my door asking for a contribution to help making sure those guns stay in my safe and are not taken away

I am also a licenced shooter in France . There, we are encouraged to join various associations protecting shooters's rights such as the UNPACT, ANTAC ou Guillaume Tell . France being France... the problem is that we actually have too many of those associations kinda fighting each other ... :cool2:

Something in the middle would be welcome ...

[IainWR]

The other big problem is that none of our NGBs is a single, unified, public-facing voice for shooting. "British Shooting" seems to be a management consultant's wet dream, with a website full of impenetrable bull that bears as much relation to my hobby as the US NRA. The NRA/NSRA/CPSA/etc are all discipline governing bodies, and despite the history I think that's what we really need to identify. These bodies, on the whole, exist to administer types of shooting, not to speak to government on behalf of shooting as a whole.

The body that speaks to Government is BSSC, the British Shooting Sports Council. It is not a members' organisation, therefore not public-facing - it is formed of and funded by the various NGBs. But it does a lot of good work, and may actually be working better without the publicity - I don't know.

[HALODIN]

I would put a manifesto and some enthusiasm before funding. It's very much chicken and the egg, but some documents, a website and some drive are more or less free. Perhaps something like a kickstart NFP project would be a good starting point.

Gaz, I guess the first hurdle would be funding.

[dromia]

Yes a good statement of purpose and intent would be the first step.

I don't think money is an issue, I am unusual in my not insubstantial circle of shooters to actually belong to national bodies, the other shooters aren't because none of the existing gives them what they want but they would and could pay into a proper national organisation that represented them as gun owners rather than divers shooting disciplines that many have no interest in.

I currently pay in excess of £200 a year to be a member of "national" organisations and would gladly pay £160 of that in fees to a decent truly national organisation.

How we get there however is not easy, I think the setting up of another organisation would be difficult if not impossible given the lack of enthusiasm gun owners have for the current crop of organisations. The ideal way would be for one of the existing organisations to evolve into a proper national organisation that recognises the key to shooting development in in the UK is supporting how the ownership of legal firearms is operated and gaining greater understanding and support for shooting amongst the general public. Taking the shooting agenda to the country and not just faceless meetings with government bureaucrats behind closed doors but mobilising the great resource of UK gun owners and voters to help promote a sensible, responsible and effect gun ownership agenda.

I think any organisation that took the lead on this would have the support of the vast majority of license holders. More of the same amongst the current organisations just isn't cutting it as far as shooters are concerned. Better, aspirational and more confident thinking and action is necessary to move the shooting agenda on in the UK.

Again all this comes back to us having a strong unifying leadership that isn't afraid to embrace and tackle the key issue that binds shooters of all disciplines and interests, gun ownership. Until that happens we will continue to be divided victims waiting for the chop from the braying of the mob when the next tragic outrage happens.

[techguy]

Yes a good statement of purpose and intent would be the first step.

I don't think money is an issue, I am unusual in my not insubstantial circle of shooters to actually belong to national bodies, the other shooters aren't because none of the existing gives them what they want but they would and could pay into a proper national organisation that represented them as gun owners rather than divers shooting disciplines that many have no interest in.

I currently pay in excess of £200 a year to be a member of "national" organisations and would gladly pay £160 of that in fees to a decent truly national organisation.

How we get there however is not easy, I think the setting up of another organisation would be difficult if not impossible given the lack of enthusiasm gun owners have for the current crop of organisations. The ideal way would be for one of the existing organisations to evolve into a proper national organisation that recognises the key to shooting development in in the UK is supporting how the ownership of legal firearms is operated and gaining greater understanding and support for shooting amongst the general public. Taking the shooting agenda to the country and not just faceless meetings with government bureaucrats behind closed doors but mobilising the great resource of UK gun owners and voters to help promote a sensible, responsible and effect gun ownership agenda.

I think any organisation that took the lead on this would have the support of the vast majority of license holders. More of the same amongst the current organisations just isn't cutting it as far as shooters are concerned. Better, aspirational and more confident thinking and action is necessary to move the shooting agenda on in the UK.

Again all this comes back to us having a strong unifying leadership that isn't afraid to embrace and tackle the key issue that binds shooters of all disciplines and interests, gun ownership. Until that happens we will continue to be divided victims waiting for the chop from the braying of the mob when the next tragic outrage happens.

Spot on..

[HALODIN]

What we need is a [peer-2-peer|bittorrent|wikipedia|flat] style shooting organisation, that doesn't compete with existing organisations. By giving members a political voice, all gun owners should feel their unified commitment and input, would protect and progress gun ownership in the UK. Existing organisations would be encouraged to participate and share their wealth of experience for the benefit of all.

If anyone has any bright ideas of how to structure such an organisation, where each successive member feels they are adding to a collective, I want in.

[M1Charles1M]

http://firearmsuk.org/?blogsub=confirming

Welcome to Firearms UK
Firearms UK is an online campaign aiming to protect gun ownership in the UK and to encourage unity and positive action within the shooting community.

Our website aims to provide a repertoire of news and information and to serve as an aide memoir for educating those on the fringes of our communities, such as friends and family members who are less knowledgeable about firearms and their use within the UK. Alongside this effort we intend to work towards increasing unity, support and cooperation within the shooting and hunting communities, and where necessary campaign to protect those communities and their associated rights.

Also on facebook, Twitter & LinkdeIn

The team are attempting to unify and present a combined voice for ALL shooting disciplines as equals. Involvement is free, simply sign up and get involved, the Facebook page is quite popular why not check it out?