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I reckon this review etc will result in identifying there was no: FLO training, compliance to guidance, dept oversight, insufficient management control etc etc, because of a lack of FLD resources to administer the system. So then they will want funding to do all that & that will be full cost recovery from FAC/SGC holders, especially if SGCs are then proposed to be managed the same way as FACs. , Beware if that includes a 2nd opinion to Medical checks thats going to get very expensive £100's & £100's.

bradaz11 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:35 am

paul mercer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:30 am Have just e-mailed Allison Hernandez the Devon & Cornwall police commissioner with my views on this whole mess up and the possible consequences for gun owners.
It will be interesting to see their reply ( if they do!) and what they say!

thats probably because she is in serious bad books all round for other failings.

Wasn't she embroiled in a false accounting election expenses scandal around 2017? If memory serves, the case was referred to the CPS whereupon nothing came of it, as is typical of the current crop of political classes. I also seem to recall around a similar timescale she was involved in a domestic case. I think her ex received a suspended sentence for violence and stalking (?). The sort of tumultuous background that would probably count against ordinary people seeking a firearm certificate.

Here we go again - The "readily available components" is a bit of a stretch at the moment.:)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslond ... e61d&ei=13

1066 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 03, 2023 5:51 pm Here we go again - The "readily available components" is a bit of a stretch at the moment.:)
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslond ... e61d&ei=13

Maybe it'd be a lot easier if the police just did their jobs properly in the first place. It'd cut down on a lot of the tragedies. I know that's not as headlining as new legislation for them to get bogged down with / ignore, just boring old practical.

Just a thought (and probably a bad one!) but if the police firearms dept are so short of staff would it be an idea for them to recruit and train some long term certificate holders (who are perhaps retired) to help out with the processing of certificates (perhaps just renewals or variations to start with) on a 'work from home' basis and maybe even carrying out initial 'home checks', basically working for the police like a PCSO? After all someone who has been shooting for many years will be aware of what is required.
As I said, just an idea........!

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:18 am Just a thought (and probably a bad one!) but if the police firearms dept are so short of staff would it be an idea for them to recruit and train some long term certificate holders (who are perhaps retired) to help out with the processing of certificates (perhaps just renewals or variations to start with) on a 'work from home' basis and maybe even carrying out initial 'home checks', basically working for the police like a PCSO? After all someone who has been shooting for many years will be aware of what is required.
As I said, just an idea........!

It would seem a good idea at first........but!!!
I used to come under West Mercia before the boundaries were moved and then I found myself in West Midlands. Not a problem because I was able to get along with my new FEO very well. I then found out that West Mercia had recruited a civilian RFD holder as a FEO and he was getting a reputation as a real PITA. He had the opinion that because he was a gun dealer, he considered himself to be an expert in all things firearms related, and used this as a stick to beat FAC owners.
I found out from my farmer, who is situated just over the border in Worcester (West Mercia) that this asshole had gone onto the farm and told the farmer not to let me shoot my .223, .243, .308 etc on their land as they were too dangerous to use on their farm. I explained to the farmer that I had an open ticket and that I was perfectly entitled to shoot those rifles on his land as long as I was safe to do so. I then told my own West Mid's FEO about it, and he was absolutely fuming over it, as he looked at it as a knock at his own decision making. He actually told me to tell him to f**k off if I ever met up with him.
He also made life difficult for many other gun owners in his area, so sometimes a gun owner can actually be counterproductive in some cases. Don't know if he is still around, and I don't have my old FEOs anymore due to Staff's taking over, but sometimes someone who shoots or deals with guns can be worse than a novice who is willing to learn from those who he is serving.

Graham M wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 10:35 am

paul mercer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:18 am Just a thought (and probably a bad one!) but if the police firearms dept are so short of staff would it be an idea for them to recruit and train some long term certificate holders (who are perhaps retired) to help out with the processing of certificates (perhaps just renewals or variations to start with) on a 'work from home' basis and maybe even carrying out initial 'home checks', basically working for the police like a PCSO? After all someone who has been shooting for many years will be aware of what is required.
As I said, just an idea........!

It would seem a good idea at first........but!!!

Tend to agree with you Graham!

I know far too many stuffy old shooters who can't see past their own limited interests, that giving them a job as FEO would hinder civilian ownership of firearms, rather than help it.

I'm aware of an FEO that would outright refuse moderators because his view is that only snipers and assassins needed them... He had an FAC too... Meanwhile, his colleagues that covered other parts of the county were more than happy to allow them.

I know of an ex RFD who got a job in the firearms department of his local police. He said they always came to him with queries regarding guns as he would know the answer. One question that was asked was "why are flintlocks always classed as muzzle loaders?" He wasn't there too long and is retired now.
Regards
Peter.

Quite agree - I've known a good few blinkered shooters who I wouldn't want as an FEO. The old "Can't understand why anyone would want a pistol" attitude is still very much alive and kicking.

I seem to remember about 20 years ago one force was successfully sued for repeatedly refusing to authorise a moderator for deer management by someone who had developed hearing loss. My dad put in for his first FAC around this time and our officer insisted we put down a moderator for every rifle we had applied for.
You don't see many moderators hanging of .303 Lee Enfields. We eventually traded that slot for something more useful.

Still recruiting certificate holders as emergency cover for departments would be a hinderance. Certificate holders by and large are a parochial lot. They know their little bit of law for their sport and not much else. On any given week a FEO/ELO will be looking at applications grants and variations for target shooting, vermin control which are their bread and butter. They also have to cover dozens of niche subjects like museum certification, RFD applications, renewals and inspection, club certificates, land certification, game fair permits, firearms held on ships, section 5 stuff on behalf of the home office, collectors and war trophies, mines and quarries, firework manufacturers, laboratories, zoos, importers, visitors certificates not to mention having to give evidence in criminal cases.

Giving the responsibility of all this to some old bloke down the club who punches a bit of paper every few weeks doesn't strike me as a particularly smart move.