The old chestnut of firearms for self defence - a question..

[Sim G]

It doesn't happen BECAUSE they are well trained, and because it's a minority of officers, a lot of time can be given to training them.

Perhaps you missed it, but it has been mentioned. Ordnance lives in Northern Ireland. There the PSNI are all routinely armed, every single one them. On top of which, they are also armed off duty. Likewise, Her Majesty's Prison Service Northern Ireland, UKBA and UKBF, other civil servants within the Northern Ireland Office and civilians due to previous or present occupations are also armed, 24/7.

[saddler]

My point is, it wouldn't save lives. It would take the lives of innocent bystanders, and the lives of criminals (I'm not bleeding heart liberal, but we have a civilised society) who would otherwise face trial.

What evidence do you have that (My point is, it wouldn't save lives. It would take the lives of innocent bystanders, ) the police carry firearms here every day and that doisent happen. Maybe some should look at evidence of what actually happens when a UK police force is armed instead of letting their imagination run away with them.

It doesn't happen BECAUSE they are well trained, and because it's a minority of officers, a lot of time can be given to training them.

Try arming 100,000+ officers, and if you want evidence of what mass arming does... look at the US Police.

Please don't start heading down the route of ad hominem arguments, it just destroys whatever point you might have had, and it's nothing to do with imagination.


Roll your eyes somewhere else.

Why just cite as "evidence" the US police?
Most of Europe, even traffic wardens are armed....!
"Run a red light? " = Double tap.....NOT

The UK is a nanny state & some like it that way...others can see a bigger picture beyond rusks & breast milk.

[AJSawyer]

I'm out (For the second time)

Like I say, it's never going to happen/extremely extremely unlikely, so I'm fine with those odds.

[Sim G]

Really, what is it about the public that you don't trust?

I've already answered this.

Your trust is misplaced. There are still far more decent, honest and responsible people than there are not. But those that are not, have a disproportionate effect on the honest.

The police can't be there when they are needed all of the time, that's the first thing you need to realise. And secondly, there are those who are more than capable to use force justly in defending themselves. What is it with so many coppers who believe that the police are the only ones who should gave the monopoly on that? There is nothing more galling than when some senior member of the force appears on TV and 'advises" the public not to stand up, but hand yourself to the mercy of whatever predator has decided you are their next victim....

[AJSawyer]

Really, what is it about the public that you don't trust?

I've already answered this.

Your trust is misplaced. There are still far more decent, honest and responsible people than there are not. But those that are not, have a disproportionate effect on the honest. The police can be there when they are needed all of the time, that's the first thing you need to realise. And secondly, there are those who are more than capable to use force justly in defending themselves. What is it with so many coppers who believe that the police are the only ones who should gave the monopoly on that? There is nothing more galling than when some senior member of the force appears on TV and 'advises" the public not to stand up, but hand yourself to the mercy of whatever predator has decided you are their next victim....

That'd be the case if I wanted to be armed at work, but strangely isn't. Funny how opposing people owning firearms for self defence means I suddenly don't want people to defend themselves.

If your idea of self defence goes from Zero to GUN, you're off the mark a touch.

There's nothing I need to "realise", I'm more than aware of the limitations and failings for the Police.

Argh, I just can't stay away, but I find it interesting that we're not discussing the subject, but apparently the motives of someone who opposes it...

[Sim G]

And that's the beauty of debate...

And sometimes it has to go from "zero to gun".

[ordnance]

Edit double post.

[ordnance]

My point is, it wouldn't save lives. It would take the lives of innocent bystanders, and the lives of criminals (I'm not bleeding heart liberal, but we have a civilised society) who would otherwise face trial.

What evidence do you have that (My point is, it wouldn't save lives. It would take the lives of innocent bystanders, ) the police carry firearms here every day and that doisent happen. Maybe some should look at evidence of what actually happens when a UK police force is armed instead of letting their imagination run away with them.

It doesn't happen BECAUSE they are well trained, and because it's a minority of officers, a lot of time can be given to training them.

Try arming 100,000+ officers, and if you want evidence of what mass arming does... look at the US Police.

Please don't start heading down the route of ad hominem arguments, it just destroys whatever point you might have had, and it's nothing to do with imagination.


Roll your eyes somewhere else.

As pointed out bellow all the things you are posting about regards the police being armed just doisent happen, why do you not look at the evidence instead of what could happen. ? PS this in the UK not America look at a UK armed police force for facts not fiction.

Perhaps you missed it, but it has been mentioned. Ordnance lives in Northern Ireland. There the PSNI are all routinely armed, every single one them. On top of which, they are also armed off duty. Likewise, Her Majesty's Prison Service Northern Ireland, UKBA and UKBF, other civil servants within the Northern Ireland Office and civilians due to previous or present occupations are also armed, 24/7

[AJSawyer]

@Ordnance

Why can you not see what I've already explained?

There's a huge difference between arming and training 7,200 officers, and arming and training 100,000+

And again, we aren't talking about the risk of arming Police, we're talking arming anyone who has a fancy for owning a gun for self defence.

Also, you can't just exclude a perfectly good example because you disagree with it. America has a huge problem, the causes are widespread, but the less steps we take towards that way of thinking and life, the better.



@Sim

Then I ask, don't assume that because I do what I do for a living, that I think I'm above any other human being.

We need legally owned firearms held by Armed Police to combat the illegally held firearms in the UK. Fortunately the vast majority of illegal firearm usage in the UK, is from gangs, targeted towards gangs. That is the only "monopoly" on force that should exist.

Everyone else has the right to defend themselves, within the confines of the law, just like Police Officers do.

[Sim G]

Everyone else has the right to defend themselves, within the confines of the law, just like Police Officers do.

Well now that's two cops I know who believe that.....

So, are you "back in"....?