The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:51 am**

4Islander wrote:
as Thorney says it needs someone to take away their ball & bang some heads together,

4I

Now, now, thats not what I said

What i said was 'perhaps bang some heads together' which looking at the situation I still believe a possible good course of action.

However, that does need all sides to accept a 'lets rebuild things' premise.

On the basis that wars (where people actually kill each other, rather than say nasty things to each other) can be resolved by a spirit of reconciliation then this can be too.

I dont know who you are (as in human being) but can you (assuming you are one of the 4islands people) agree to attend a meeting where such a reconciliation could take place?

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:00 am**

I dont really think an open forum is the place to argue out the details, I do think it should be openly discussed though so how about this.

This is my email address - john@thorneymotorsport.co.uk.

Sounds like we are talking about 5 people from UKPSA, 2? people from the NRA and 3-4? people from 4islands?

If someone can get me the email address for each of those I will send a group email out (all in the open) to try and arrange a meeting here in Northants. Ahead of the meeting we will set an agenda so that all matters can be aired with the caveat that the purpose of the meeting is to find a way for the sport of practical shooting to move forward. Fair enough.

The only reason this cannot happen is if one or more of the people involved refuses to attend and frankly that would indicate to everyone that that person or persons cannot be entrusted to help represent or develop a sport - so the challenge is made, everyone blames everyone else, now is the time to stop that and put all your skill and experience into creating something better and not arguing why.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:10 am**

Well done Thorney nice gesture but unfortunately it looks like you wasted your time.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:11 am**

4Islander wrote: Not really, all that is needed is for the NRA to hold the IPSC franchise, effectively removing the UKPSA executive who are responsible for expelling people & some very poor financial decisions that have wasted a lot of their members money.

Were the people expelled because they were actively going against the UKPSA's best interests?

4Islander wrote: No need for the demise of any group, all could continue doing what they do which is to promote safe shooting, as Thorney says it needs someone to take away their ball & bang some heads together, IPSC could do that quite easily, simply give the franchise to the NRA & the problems go away.

So what happens to the UKPSA if they lose IPSC? How do they continue?

4Islander wrote: The groups seperately have done a lot of good work, we have seen practical shooting grow at Bisley, James Harris has worked his socks off to that end with the NRA, & yet as a thankyou the UKPSA have expelled him, how does that action support UK shooting ?

Was he promoting the UKPSA at Bisley or cutting them out?

4Islander wrote: Equally trying to prevent F4i matches from happening at Bisley is also unsupportive of shooters & the advancement of UK shooting in general, not to mention down right disgraceful.

That is quite petty, sad to see the NRA retaliating in kind too.

4Islander wrote: Only one group is led by a spiteful core of individuals who after years of dictating how practical shooting in the UK could be done have reacted badly to those who only wished to expand its reach & make it easier for people to get involved thereby circumventing their control.

To be honest only the F4i have seemed spiteful so far. I've not heard a UKPSA member say a bad word about F4i, but plenty of slagging off from F4i. I'm not invested in either group, I'm happy so long as I can shoot regularly and safely. Any interruption in that shooting is what will wind shooters up most I think.

4Islander wrote: The UKPSA council are reacting this way because they fear the loss of that monopoly, it has nothing to do with doing what is right for UK shooters, if that was their goal they wouldn't have waited years for a group like F4i to come along & force them into reacting more positively now.

I'm pretty sure I'd be miffed if, after almost 40 years of developing practical shooting, another group came along and wanted to take away my business, would you not? If they're reacting more positively now why not try to work with that?

4Islander wrote: SUPPORT THE NRA !!!

Difficult when all I see is a focus on Bisley. Are they offering anything to anyone outside of Bisley? Funding for new practical equipment for example? Will all major matches be held at Bisley if they win, could this alienate anyone not close to the M25?

I'd still like to know what F4i do differently. As said, I'm new to it so I don't know what the UKPSA did so terribly.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:12 am**

4Islander wrote:
dromia wrote:Looks like the strife is set to continue then until the demise of one or more of the factions.
Not really, all that is needed is for the NRA to hold the IPSC franchise, effectively removing the UKPSA executive who are responsible for expelling people & some very poor financial decisions that have wasted a lot of their members money.

No need for the demise of any group, all could continue doing what they do which is to promote safe shooting, as Thorney says it needs someone to take away their ball & bang some heads together, IPSC could do that quite easily, simply give the franchise to the NRA & the problems go away.

The groups seperately have done a lot of good work, we have seen practical shooting grow at Bisley, James Harris has worked his socks off to that end with the NRA, & yet as a thankyou the UKPSA have expelled him, how does that action support UK shooting ?

Equally trying to prevent F4i matches from happening at Bisley is also unsupportive of shooters & the advancement of UK shooting in general, not to mention down right disgraceful.

Only one group is led by a spiteful core of individuals who after years of dictating how practical shooting in the UK could be done have reacted badly to those who only wished to expand its reach & make it easier for people to get involved thereby circumventing their control.

The UKPSA council are reacting this way because they fear the loss of that monopoly, it has nothing to do with doing what is right for UK shooters, if that was their goal they wouldn't have waited years for a group like F4i to come along & force them into reacting more positively now.

Its easy to come on here & say all the groups should get along, two of them do get along just fine, the third could be made to play nicely if they just had their ball taken away.

SUPPORT THE NRA !!!

4I

Well if this isn't talking about the demise of one organisation, divisive and Ya Boo I don't know what is.

This is the very attitude we don't need at a national level, co-operation not competition and working for the now not what has gone is what shooting needs.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:36 am**

Thorney wrote: I dont know who you are (as in human being) but can you (assuming you are one of the 4islands people) agree to attend a meeting where such a reconciliation could take place?

I am happy to attend such a meeting, I especially liked your chilli the last time I was at your place.

4I

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:54 am**

At least I know who '4islander' is now! I bloody hate forum names!

Right, 4island members are willing to attend, just need UKPSA and NRA to agree to attend and we can start the ball rolling towards a positive outcome.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:10 am**

Best of luck John, you can but try!

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:47 am**

Good luck.

Posted: **Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:47 am**

Good luck from me too.
I do think that sometimes we are blighted by older shooters who cant let go of the past and move on.
s*** happens, learn from it, eat a bit of humble pie and move on.
Tony

The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

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