Israel: Giving its people a chance.

[joe]

Glazer safety slugs are not considered good defence rounds due to a lack of penetration

[saddler]

Never said they were - was stating the "logic" behind the concept of such things = dump all the energy into the target & no exit wound/bullet pass through

[DL.]

I think it's important to add that the experiences of the IDF have added to our military doctrine by learning from their battlefield first aid.

Regarding pistol rounds stopping people - .455 Webley anyone?

[joe]

Glazer safety slugs are not considered good defence rounds due to a lack of penetration

I think I read somewhere they literally exploded on impact which is total crap

[Sim G]

Clint Smith reckons that the pistol should only ever be used to fight your way to your rifle...

[ordnance]

Surely basic science would indicate that if a bullet passes through the body, it has retained some of the energy it started out with. And if a bullet penetrates halfway and comes to a stop it has transferred all its energy to the body ?

Yes but there is not enough energy in a handgun bullet for that to have any effect.

Round 9mm, Type fmj Weight 124 Muzzle Energy ft·lb 350 Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 1126.

Round 7.62, Type fmj, Weight 150 grain, Muzzle Energy ft. lb 2,648 Muzzle Velocity ft/sec 2,700

Regarding pistol rounds stopping people - .455 Webley anyone?

Thats another myth the mythical stopping power of the .45 and .455 all they do is make a bigger hole, depending on were you were hit that might and might not make a difference.

[Sim G]

The energy dump and other supposed effects are just commonly held myths.

How does that explain the secondary wound channels created and witnessed in ballistic gel? If "energy dump" is a myth, then why doesn't this gel show just a very narrow tract, calibre size, cut through the gel till the bullet either stops or exits?

[breacher]

Glaser safety slugs are a red herring when discussing " stopping power"

They are a ( very good ) attempt at achieving lethality whilst also reducing risk of penetration of backstop / reducing ricochet lethality. They are a compromise. Neither the best at lethality nor safety.

[Chuck]

plus i'd like to think the low recoil would make for higher chances of keyholeing your shots, wish would open the hole out in itself.

would you rather get shot somewhere randomly on your body with one 45acp or five .22's? in the same spot.

Why would you be trying to shoot a tight group on something that's moving? That is not defensive shooting. If you are shooting a tight group you are shooting too slow - this is a movie misconception (and some "training schools) that tight groups are effective.

How would you know for example that your five shots are actually effective in the one spot.....???

Energy dump is not a myth, that's why solid or expanding slug is so effective. In fact that's why slower moving but heavier projectiles and expanding ammo works so well. And don't forget that good old .357 magnum, VERY efficient - that's why police used it for ages.

[breacher]

Surely basic science would indicate that if a bullet passes through the body, it has retained some of the energy it started out with. And if a bullet penetrates halfway and comes to a stop it has transferred all its energy to the body ?

Yes but there is not enough energy in a handgun bullet for that to have any effect.

Round 9mm, Type fmj Weight 124 Muzzle Energy ft·lb 350 Muzzle Velocity ft/sec. 1126.

Round 7.62, Type fmj, Weight 150 grain, Muzzle Energy ft. lb 2,648 Muzzle Velocity ft/sec 2,700

So, if a 9mm dumps all its energy in the body you feel its not enough to be lethal ?

Surely its better that you are better transferring the energy to the target than ( fmj vs sp ) to the backstop. Even a couple of hundred ft/lbs in the body is better than 50 in the body and 150 in the backstop ?