The UK's Finest Independent Forum for Shooters and Gun Owners. Est 2010.

flippin eck, Noah just called and asked for his safety sheets back LOL

is it just me or does anyone else hate seeing the word "weapon"

From somethingin 1979!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sheesh, "only point in the direction it is meant to shoot" - WHAT? Guns are meant to shoot in any direction

How about only point in a safe direction! And have SAFE DIRECTION on a BIG sign downrange in the target area.

Definitely due a re-write, these are nearly 40 years old!

Tony-c wrote:.....is it just me or does anyone else hate seeing the word "weapon"

Sometimes I wonder about that, but I came to this conclusion - yes it is a weapon, a firearm, but it's used responsibly for target shooting / live quarry - so what?

I think our unease at the word "weapon" is the conditioning we've all received courtesy of the media and the uninformed public!

It is a gun after all - it's not like we're playing tiddlywinks!

It's not an instrument of defense or attack, it's just an instrument. Personally I think it's helpful not to call it that because of public perception.

weap·on
n.
1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.
2. Zoology A part or organ, such as a claw or stinger, used by an animal in attack or defense.
3. A means used to defend against or defeat another: Logic was her weapon.
tr.v. weap·oned, weap·on·ing, weap·ons
To supply with weapons or a weapon; arm.

HALODIN wrote:It's not an instrument of defense or attack.

weap·on
n.
1. An instrument of attack or defense in combat, as a gun, missile, or sword.
2. Zoology A part or organ, such as a claw or stinger, used by an animal in attack or defense.
3. A means used to defend against or defeat another: Logic was her weapon.
tr.v. weap·oned, weap·on·ing, weap·ons
To supply with weapons or a weapon; arm.

I can see your point Halodin, but define for me when is a gun a weapon and when is it not?

It's by use I would suppose - but is that the purpose it's used for or the purpose it's capable of being used for?

Or is it the user ie Police / Military / Civillian?

Is it the use only when it's injurious to someone / somthing's health - ie Military training is not with weapons? But they fight wars with the exact same firearm?

I would posit thus - lets not hide from firearms used for sporting purposes being called weapons, it's only a word - let's not let it have negative connotations.

In practice gun, firearm and weapon are broadly interchangable - don't shy away from using any one over the other.

Pass me that weapon from the drawer, no I meant the knife, screwdriver, hammer etc.
It's not a case of shying away from the term, it's the incorrect term and implies the incorrect usage. A gun is a gun, a firearm, rifle, pistol etc. It becomes a weapon in the wrong hands and routinely referring to it as such implies that we're the wrong hands

Demonic69 wrote:.....
It's not a case of shying away from the term, it's the incorrect term and implies the incorrect usage. A gun is a gun, a firearm, rifle, pistol etc. It becomes a weapon in the wrong hands and routinely referring to it as such implies that we're the wrong hands

Nicely put, I can agree with that - upto a point, when does it become a weapon? and also "implies" I would argue is the recipient inferring rather than it being implied?

Soldiers and the Police must be the right hands (on paper at least!) do they not use weapons? Do they only use firearms?

If we accept that as fact the Military and Police only use firearms, then does it follow that the only users of weapons are criminals? I guess I could agree with that were anyone else to make the point.

At which point the distinction would be - only criminals use weapons, and military and police usage of firearms in attack and defence isn't useage of weapons - except it is, because the dictionary says so! aaarggh (Oh and the SNP with their daft Air "Weapons" licensing bill )

Back on topic - "Range Orders" - I would refer to guns of any kinds as "Firearms" it's correct and doesn't have negative connotations ascribed to it.

It's already perfectly defined by the dictionary. If you bought your rifle for defense or attack then it's a weapon, irrespective if it's been used for that purpose or not. If you bought it for recreational target shooting, then it's NOT a weapon. Using those words interchangeably is incorrect IMO and certainly doesn't further our cause.

nickb834 wrote:I can see your point Halodin, but define for me when is a gun a weapon and when is it not?

It's by use I would suppose - but is that the purpose it's used for or the purpose it's capable of being used for?

Or is it the user ie Police / Military / Civillian?

Is it the use only when it's injurious to someone / somthing's health - ie Military training is not with weapons? But they fight wars with the exact same firearm?

I would posit thus - lets not hide from firearms used for sporting purposes being called weapons, it's only a word - let's not let it have negative connotations.

In practice gun, firearm and weapon are broadly interchangable - don't shy away from using any one over the other.

HALODIN wrote:It's already perfectly defined by the dictionary. If you bought your rifle for defense or attack then it's a weapon, irrespective if it's been used for that purpose or not. If you bought it for recreational target shooting, then it's NOT a weapon. Using those words interchangeably is incorrect IMO and certainly doesn't further our cause.

nickb834 wrote:I can see your point Halodin, but define for me when is a gun a weapon and when is it not?

It's by use I would suppose - but is that the purpose it's used for or the purpose it's capable of being used for?

Or is it the user ie Police / Military / Civillian?

Is it the use only when it's injurious to someone / somthing's health - ie Military training is not with weapons? But they fight wars with the exact same firearm?

I would posit thus - lets not hide from firearms used for sporting purposes being called weapons, it's only a word - let's not let it have negative connotations.

In practice gun, firearm and weapon are broadly interchangable - don't shy away from using any one over the other.

A simple "it's intended useage when acquired defines it's status" would have sufficed - although does it instantly become a weapon if I then do something bad with it - ie is this like the Section 5 argument, to wit, "when it's not a weapon it's always never a weapon - errrr or something" - does it revert back to not being a weapon therafter? *1

I'll have to take exception to using "weapon" as not furthering our cause, pandering to the anti's by using carefully crafted phrases does us a greater disservice (as does the "though shall not wear Military / Police clothing when on range").

What matters most is how we use our "toys" - not what we call them (mines Betsy btw)

Note that I am not advocating overtly aggressive stances here - merely that I personally don't subscribe to using "on message" specific language and other such political trickery!

please also note that I can indeed see this from your point of view - I understand entirely what you mean and accept the negativity arround the word weapon, and I respect your right to disagree!

1* tbh - that sentence is entirely trolling - don't take it too seriously, hopefully you can see the humour and that there really are no hard and fast rules on this topic!

It's all semantics, but I would say if you drove your car at someone, it doesn't make your car a weapon, but you used it as one. I would say it all hinges around the original purpose of an item.

Don't worry I'm not that sensitive!

nickb834 wrote:A simple "it's intended useage when acquired defines it's status" would have sufficed - although does it instantly become a weapon if I then do something bad with it - ie is this like the Section 5 argument, to wit, "when it's not a weapon it's always never a weapon - errrr or something" - does it revert back to not being a weapon therafter? *1

I'll have to take exception to using "weapon" as not furthering our cause, pandering to the anti's by using carefully crafted phrases does us a greater disservice (as does the "though shall not wear Military / Police clothing when on range").

What matters most is how we use our "toys" - not what we call them (mines Betsy btw)

Note that I am not advocating overtly aggressive stances here - merely that I personally don't subscribe to using "on message" specific language and other such political trickery!

please also note that I can indeed see this from your point of view - I understand entirely what you mean and accept the negativity arround the word weapon, and I respect your right to disagree!

1* tbh - that sentence is entirely trolling - don't take it too seriously, hopefully you can see the humour and that there really are no hard and fast rules on this topic!