Question for the gun smiths

[TattooedGun]

I wish I was joking...

[TattooedGun]

Ok this is weird. Now my pc's dropped connection to the Internet....
I think emailing the home office about firearms might lead to getting your social media information probed as well as your computer....

Or I could just need a new tinfoil hat...

Coincidence though, eh?!

[Christel]

Nah, it is your connection to the F-B forum

[bradaz11]

... if a reciever is manufactured as a semi auto in the US, its sec 5 here??? or did I dream that?

Must have been a dream

A receiver is just that, a receiver and will take the lowest classification until it is manufactured in to a firearm.

According to the HO there are no S5 common parts, only parts of S5 weapons. So unless a part is made into or included in the build of a S5 weapon then it will remain the lower class (ie S1 in this case) until such time that it is included as part of a S5 weapon.

sorry, i'll clarify what i meant, when a firearm becomes a firearm in the eyes of BATF, that classification is then the one used by the UK to classify it here, isn't it?
so when a semi auto rifle is produced, BATF classify it. the gun, including its receiver are then forever classed in the UK as that? which is why with pistols etc, you can't just buy a revolver, throw the cylinder in the bin and make it a front stuffer.

so if they (BATF) have classified a component as something which is controlled (as you say, losely as it doesn't need to be on ticket, you just need the permission for the right rifle) wouldn't the UK take that classification in the same way?

[Maggot]

It's classed as a suppressor - so threading it and using it on a Sec 1 firearm would make it a regulated item, would it not?

And why the heck would you want to make it louder for no other benefit? Just to annoy everyone else on the range shooting along side you?

Bloody hell mate calm down your gonna burst a blood vessel! I don't agree with you I don't believe it would be classed as a "suppressor" sorry I meant sound moderator as it increases the noise not lowers it also the item is advertised as being a flash hider which to the best of my knowledge aren't regulated.
I have private land that's far enough away from people/houses that I can shoot on so I'm not going annoy anyone and I wouldn't dream of taking it to a club.

Its regulated, just like any other item that is pressure bearing etc, but its not prohibited under S5.

I dont believe that any owner of a straightpull SVD/L1A1/AR etc has a seperate slot for them as they would a moderator.

I cant see why you would do it or believe that its a good idea as the item will not have been designed for firearms use (so should it take someones eye out you may have issues) but if its done by a pukka gunsmith whats the issue?

Alternatively put a bloody brake on the thing and hear some noise or just shoot it without ear deffenders and enjoy everybody elses

[Mattnall]

sorry, i'll clarify what i meant, when a firearm becomes a firearm in the eyes of BATF, that classification is then the one used by the UK to classify it here, isn't it?
so when a semi auto rifle is produced, BATF classify it. the gun, including its receiver are then forever classed in the UK as that? which is why with pistols etc, you can't just buy a revolver, throw the cylinder in the bin and make it a front stuffer.

so if they (BATF) have classified a component as something which is controlled (as you say, losely as it doesn't need to be on ticket, you just need the permission for the right rifle) wouldn't the UK take that classification in the same way?

I haven't heard of this, but that doesn't mean it's not true.
However, I'm not sure that the classification here has anything to do with the classification in the States. Many things that are legal in the UK or the US and illegal in the other.
In the US the uppers on ARs are not classified as firearms, only the lower, in the UK there has been reports that the lower, especially without the fire control parts, is not a firearm or component and uncontrolled (but good luck on getting someone to sell you one off ticket). The serial number being on the lower doesn't matter.
Our classification of firearms in to S1, S2, S5, S11 etc is totally different from the US system so I doubt it would transfer directly. The UK authorities (essentially HMRC and the HO in this case) can make up their own minds as to the classification of firearms and components.

I maybe wrong, I often am.

[breacher]

In fairness to TG he was expressing opinion rather than claiming fact. Its just debating.

The only way this will be settled is if its taken to court. I would say its 50/50 especially considering how the manufacturer describe it ! Regardless of where its made, the manufacturers intended use will be a factor.

[Alpha1]

Sent.

I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong at this point, we'll wait and see.


Hunter87 wrote:

Tattooedgun I think it's rather funny that for someone who says in a previous post they dont care either way you have spent the whole day posting and searching for evidence about the subject.


The things I do to learn legislation surrounding firearms law...

So what did you learn after six pages of debate and a email to the Home office enlighten us. Did the original poster manage to find a answer to his question about the thread size of his flash hider.

[TattooedGun]

Sent.

I'd like nothing more than to be proven wrong at this point, we'll wait and see.


Hunter87 wrote:

Tattooedgun I think it's rather funny that for someone who says in a previous post they dont care either way you have spent the whole day posting and searching for evidence about the subject.


The things I do to learn legislation surrounding firearms law...

So what did you learn after six pages of debate and a email to the Home office enlighten us. Did the original poster manage to find a answer to his question about the thread size of his flash hider.

I'm still waiting on a reply from the HO on classification of the item in particular and also how flash hiders are controlled, whether they should or not be controlled like moderators.

Wasn't sent until last thing Thursday which means they only really had Friday to reply if they work mon-fri 9-5...

Other than that I didn't learn a lot...

[TattooedGun]

It's taken a short while but I finally got a response RE Flash hiders from the HOME OFFICE.

You can see the full response as PDF here: Email address/address redacted: http://blog.stegough.com/wp-content/upl ... sponse.pdf

Dear Mr Gough,

Thank you for your e-mail of 24 September in which you seek Home Office clarification as to whether flash suppressors are restricted and require inclusion on a firearm certificate.

As you have set out, Section 57(1) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) states:

In this Act, the expression " firearm " means a lethal barrelled weapon of any description from which any shot, bullet or other missile can be discharged and includes-

(a) any prohibited weapon, whether it is such a lethal
weapon as aforesaid or not ; and

(b) any component part of such a lethal or prohibited
weapon ; and

(c) any accessory to any such weapon designed or adapted
to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the
weapon ;

and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description
of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section
applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of,
and accessories to, firearms of that description.

Therefore, I can confirm that section 57(1)(c) covers flash suppressors or such items to diminish the noise or flash caused by the firing of a weapon.

Like sound moderators, flash suppressors are subject to certificate control as “items designed to reduce the noise or flash of a firearm” and you will therefore require good reason to possess them. Flash suppressors are also subject to import licence controls.

Further advice relating to licensing control and firearms certificates may be obtained from your local Police Firearms Licensing Department.

I hope that this deals satisfactorily with your enquiry.

Yours sincerely

N Drummond

It looks like the Home Office agree with my understanding of the law, and as such flash hiders require a slot on firearms certificate.

In my original email to them I did ask specifically about the item involved, however they have given a standard looking response to the question.

I would take this response as them deeming the item to be a flash hider, rather than a muzzle break, but it could be seen as inconclusive on the classification of the item in question as they have not specifically mentioned it at all.

Bloody minefield if you ask me.