qws wrote:I am very pleased this thread has taken a life of it's own. I shared the thread with Mike of Icon Arms and he had a few comments ref the setup cost of getting an LBP into the UK
See Below: exactly as the e-mail Mike sent to me:
Thanks for all the feedback Richard.
I have looked at the forum link that you sent to me and I have a couple of comments regarding some of the follow-up posts therein. Regarding the cost of the pistol, due to UK law we cannot import a pistol from Sig Sauer then convert it, as once any firearm has been assembled in prohibited form it retains its Section 5 prohibited status even if it complies with the technical requirements of Section 1. This means that we have to import components from Sig Sauer then assemble the pistols for the first time here in the UK as Section 1 firearms which is an expensive route: if you had to recreate the car that you currently drive by building it yourself from parts sourced from the main dealer rather than driving it off their forecourt, it would certainly cost you a great deal more.
To be completely candid, although I am always fairly dismissive about statements about the comparative cost of firearms and parts in the US, they continue to frustrate me as they are usually made by people that have absolutely no understanding of what is required to procure those items and bring them into the UK legally. They ignore the fact that unless you are a permanent or semi-permanent resident of the same state in which the FFL is located, most FFLs will not sell you a firearm or controlled component in person (they cannot even sell to a US citizen who is domiciled out of state). It is however possible to import remotely from the US and other countries (as we do at Icon Arms) but this requires an export licence. This has a cost of upwards of $375 and an export agent will be required as most manufacturers and virtually all shops do not want to deal with the bureaucracy surrounding firearms export from the US. An export licence will not be granted without first having an appropriate UK import licence in place (of which there are two types). Most US export agents levy an administration charge of 5% of the value of any purchase order and have a minimum shipping charge of $350. Firearms and parts are often subject to additional ITAR or US Department of Commerce export restrictions for which additional permissions and licences are necessary (both having additional associated costs). As well as complete firearms, components like magazines, receivers, barrels, triggers, muzzle devices and optics fall within these areas. To import firearms and pressure-bearing
components into the UK, a UK import licence is required from the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills. To import a pistol (or other prohibited firearm) Home Office authority (i.e. Section 5) is required before the grant of a Specific Import Licence is considered by BIS, and Section 5 authority is very closely controlled for fairly obvious reasons. Many of these statements also overlook that travel to the US usual involves a return flight which is usually several hundred pounds from even the bucket shop carriers. Once the firearm is landed in the UK it becomes subject to import duty and VAT, the latter being levied on the total cost including shipping. The importing of firearms and components into the UK is closely monitored by the National Crime Agency (NCA, formerly known as the Serious Crime Squad) and visits to importers by their officers are common. The reality is that most individuals that make these types of uninformed comments cannot nor ever will be allowed to import firearms in the UK and whilst there are importers in the UK that charge extortionate prices for imported firearms and parts (and we all know who they are), Icon Arms like many other businesses operates on very modest margins: We only source the highest quality firearms and parts from the best suppliers worldwide rather than those of lesser quality or sourced from weaker economies. Whilst our products are typically towards the higher end of the price range in any of the sectors in which we compete, we differentiate our products on quality rather than price and they always provide value as a result.
Again, thanks for you great feedback and I look forward to talking with you again soon.
Best regards
Mike
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Mike Jakes
Icon Arms Limited
RFD 33/00000004041
Stathern, Leicestershire, LE14 4HW, United Kingdom
M: +44 7816 512874
T: +44 1949 861875
mike.jakes@iconarms.com
http://www.iconarms.com
I think Mike makes a fair point regarding the amount of time and effort to get a legal LBP on the UK market let alone all the R&D needed to get the pistol right. I am sure it was the same for people from Caledonian Classic Arms and Low Mills when they wanted to sell the K22 and 1911 in the UK. Without the likes of these companies we would not even have these options open to us. So really well done to all of these pioneers for getting these for us to choose from.
), the concealment element of it was very much a minor part and was simply used to 'ice the cake'. It was the rapid fire nature of the guns that was the primary 'evil' element for the barristers(?) acting for the parents/teachers. Its the same with the mysterious gym bag containing "enough ammunition to kill every child in the school", that isn't mentioned by the two witnesses that saw him crossing the playground, or any of the witnesses inside the gym. It only appears once the police forensic guy arrived on the scene. Again, just more egging the pudding.
