Krag versus SMLE

[Steve E]

Sergeant Instructor Snoxall, School of Musketry, Hythe, 1914. Rifle charged with 10 rounds to start with.

And very little if any documentary evidence that it actually happened. If Sgt Snoxall existed (and the SASC can't prove it either way) he would have shot the " record" prone from a fire step in a trench on a target that was close to the modern 600 yd target but shot at 200yds. Hardly an example of a high standard of marksmanship. Pre WW1 the standard that all infantry had to achieve was 24 aimed shots in 1 minute. The targets of the day were very large compared to what we shoot on today, so a lot of it is comparing apples with oranges.

so reasonable to presume that some are better than others especially instructors and could achieve more than the regulation 24rpm ?

Quite reasonable to presume that some instructors/shooters are better than others,but the majority would only have been able to fire two or three more rounds than the required minimum. Also bear in mind that 'rapid fire' was not to fire as many rounds as possible but to shoot at a controlled rate of 10-12 rounds a minute. The British Army has never been into 'blazing' away with uncontrolled fire.
What I have a problem with is people perpetuating what is probably a myth as regards Sgt Snoxall.
The SASC could not confirm his existence when i contacted them about this matter. What the SASC did do when I contacted them several years ago was to confirm that a Sgt Major J A Wallingford, who was a known shot in the Army (1894-1907), may have shot 37 rounds in one minute at 200yds on a large bullseye target but they could not confirm which year, but it would have been prior to WW1 and not with a SMLE but MLLE (Long Lee to those who do not know).

[tackb]

i'm not over fussed who did it , but I do believe it is possible!

[B.M.F]

Hello folks.

Bernt from Norway here... This is an old thread, I know, but I felt I had to post a comment anyway...

It’s interesting to learn about the “Mad minute”. When was this rapid fire excersice introduced?
I allways read about the Krag and how slow it is to load etc… In fact it is very fast to reload and several speed chargers were availeable already when the Krag was adopted by the Norwegian army. The army never adopted a charger though, because the Krag was initially supposed to be used as a single loader with the magazine in reserve. That was the tactics of the day. Among the civilian shooters it was a different matter as you can see in the video below.
In Norway we have a variation called “Stang shooting”. The competition is about hitting a target as many times as possible in 25 seconds. It’s shot twice at two different ranges. And the scores are combined. The ranges vary, but are usually +/- 150 and +/-250 meters. Todays targets are a triangular figure 49 cm wide and 33 cm tall for the long range, and a 30cm tall, 25 cm wide headshaped figure for the short range. In the old days it was of course shot with the Krags, but today it’s mostly the Sauer 200 str. Members of the Homeguard are allowed to use their servicerifles (G3). It’s a bit controversial that semiautos compete with boltactions, but it’s great fun to watch.
The other rapid fire discipline is called “Felthurtig” (speed field shooting). The shooter starts in standing position with the riflebutt next to his foot. Rifle is loaded and safety is on. On the command “Fire” he drops to the ground, and must hit three targets at an unknow distance at shortest possible time. Max 6 shots are allowed, and the targets must be shot in a fixed order. This is also part of the Nordic shooting championships.

Norwegian instructionfilm from 1986. Stang and Felthurtig:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWIi5m9-0S8
Norwegian national match 2007. Stang and Felthurtig finals. Ranges are 240 and 140 meters:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cnAwRJc7Sw
Stang targets:
http://norma.as/Skytterlag/Skivematerie ... 0000004171
http://norma.as/Skytterlag/Skivematerie ... 0000004186

The discipline “Stang shooting” was introduced in 1912 in memory of Col. Georg Stang. He was Norways minister of defence 1900 – 1903. This was towards the end of the union with Sweden under one king (1814 – 1905). Stang was an eager anti-union man, and as a member of the “Fortresscommision”, was known as the “father of the borderfortresses”.
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Stang

[dromia]

Welcome!

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