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Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:18 am
by Andy632
karen wrote:Just so you all know whilst Iain was writing that last message I was waiting on my own in a bar for him. People were giving me funny looks and the barman (who I had told my husband had popped up to the hotel room for 2 minutes to allegedly drop a bag off) obviously thought I was some sort of lady of the night preying on his hotel guests!
Iain is now in deep doodoo (even though he does have a very understanding wife)
Love
Karen
Hi Karen,
You'll have to give us a review of your South African trip. I'm off there again in November; apart from a week in the Drakensberg (staying at the Cavern), we're not sure where to spend the rest of our time, done most of the game parks to death, might have to be the 'wine route' again (hic!).
Regards, Andy
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:42 pm
by Blackstuff
It would be very interesting to see if that 'change of policy' for LBR's could be extended to S1 shotguns as it would solve one of the biggest hurdles for people getting into PSG!
Waits in anticipation but does not hold breath...
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:57 pm
by mr smith
Blackstuff wrote:It would be very interesting to see if that 'change of policy' for LBR's could be extended to S1 shotguns as it would solve one of the biggest hurdles for people getting into PSG!
Waits in anticipation but does not hold breath...
One of the clubs i'm in has a slot for a section 1 shotgun,i haven't mentioned the possibility the plod has made a muck up.
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:25 pm
by joe
IainWR wrote:Hi all
A couple of points
This issue is part of the bigger one encompassing S1 shotguns and LBP as well as LBRs. To fix it either: we need primary legislation (unlikely), or: we need somebody to get charged with an offence through borrowing or lending a S1 firearm on the grounds that the firearm isn't a "rifle" within the meaning of S15(1) Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988; we need the case to go through the court of first instance and on to Appeal; and we need them to be acquitted on appeal, thus creating a precedent binding on lower courts. My opinion is that such a prosecution is unlikely to end in the place we would wish, therefore it would be unreasonable to expect someone to bet their liberty on it doing so.
The NRA doesn't have a legal team as such (how big do you think the professional organisation actually is?). On firearms matters it has me. I'm not a lawyer (before joining the NRA staff I was an RAF pilot for 33 years), although I do hold a degree in law and I have studied the Firearms Acts and related legislation in some detail. If I thought that the issue was inportant enough and that there was a realistic prospect of success, I would be raising it at higher level as a matter to be taken on, with input from specialist lawyers. Unfortunately, as I said above, I don't think the outcome we would like is achievable through the courts. Therefore it is a matter to put forward if there is, in the future, an opportunity to do so as part of the preparation of a proposal to amend the Firearms Acts. When that opportunity might be I'm afraid I don't know.
Iain
judicial review would be easier!
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:29 pm
by joe
definition of a handgun oxford dictionary
a gun designed for use by one hand,
especially a pistol or revolver.
fits in with an lbr
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:01 pm
by andy h
Here is a copy of the original handgonne (hand cannon) .
http://teleoceras.webs.com/Guns/XGA17.jpg
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:01 am
by Chapuis
joe wrote:definition of a handgun oxford dictionary
a gun designed for use by one hand,
especially a pistol or revolver.
fits in with an lbr
They must have updated the definition then in line with modern thinking because my understanding is that the original meaning of handegunne or whatever the old english spelling was, meant any firearm that could be held in the hands rather than was supported on a mount.
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:03 am
by Andy632
Another Brain teaser question on long barrelled handguns.
What about Air Pistols?
Do the same criteria of Barrel length & overall length apply to them as well??
Air Pistol restricted to 6 ft/lbs.
Air Rifle restricted to 12 ft/lbs without a licence.
Can one turn an Air Rifle into a Long-barrelled Air Pistol (12"" barrel & over 24") and have it over 6ft/lbs & less than 12ft/lbs and remain legal??
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:46 am
by IainWR
Again, I'm doing this without access to published information (slow internet on a wet day in a South African nature reserve).
I would have thought that, lacking any definition of the specific point of difference between an air rifle and an air pistol, the one to use would be as for S1 firearms. Not least because, if the power was over 12 ft-lbs, your cut-down air rifle would fit on an FAC in S1, so logically under 12 ft-lbs it should still be covered by the air rifle exemption. It would certainly be persuasive in court. But again, you have found an undecided area of law. Want to try it? In Scotland??
Iain
Re: LBR restrictions/law
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:34 pm
by Ginger
Iain,
as the NRA doesn't have 'Legal Team', how about on your return you speak to the NRA firearms liaison offices who can speak to the Head of Surreys Firearms licensing and get definitive answer on both.
I think people quoting "Wiki's" from the web without being hold of the full facts is dangerous, (yes I have done it).
